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Old 01-08-2014, 07:23 AM   #76
Wraith Rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alii1959 View Post
I read an article about a couple who were pirated up who were coming to a stop at a red light. He was nearly stopped, went to put his foot down, and either hit a low spot or something and the went down. He suffered pretty significant road rash on his bare arms/hand along with a facial injury. His wife, unfortunately, didn't fare as well. She hit her head on the curb and died at the scene. They couldn't have been going over 5 mph.
So what? Put your helmet on before you leave your bed? That's the perfect example why gear is overrated.

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Originally Posted by alii1959 View Post
Sadly, there is a culture in this country that states that "its my life I'll do what I want"
One of the most adorable features of your country. I wish there was more of that mindset around here.
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:28 AM   #77
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At lizard-brain level we identify things as either "the same" or "the other."

We cast a jaundiced eye on "the other" as it might be a threat.

The trick is overcoming these instinctive intuitions and making a rational evaluation using scientific theory and proofs to substantiate the final decision, rather than only relying upon our basest instincts. (though base instincts have served us well and likewise should not be dismissed out of hand)
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:31 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by steelerider View Post
The truth of the matter is that the majority of riders here in PA, wear little, to no protective gear, most of them also ride HD. I personally would like to understand the psyche behind this, and for most parts, my questions have been answered by many responses in this thread.
As far as I'm concerned, you wear whatever the hell you want, I don't care if you ride around in a damn clown suit. Personally, I've seen the effects that good gear has, and without my helmet, I'd be dead right now, so I choose ATGATT.
I live and ride in PA as well (well until the first week of Feb when I move)and while I have observed that skipping any sort of protective gear is quite common stating "majority" is a touch strong. And I have seen plenty of folks on non-cruiser high-performance street bikes wearing not much of anything either.....not exclusive to Harley riders. Age does not seem to be a factor.

I have done some Patriot Guard rides (I like doing it being a veteran-I am not affiliated with any club or group) and I think most folks involved were wearing protective gear to include helmets etc.

But PA is peculiar with the non-requirement for a helmet. It's left to personal choice along with everything else.

Now for myself-as a former full-time FF/EMT it took me a lot of years to return to owning and enjoying a motorcycle. I have seen the effects of NOT wearing good PPE and honestly its fucking gross and horrible....hence I always ride in hi-viz armored stuff with gloves, protective boots, and a full (albeit modular) helmet etc simply out of minimizing my personal risk factors.

As for why folks choose not to wear PPE....quien sabe?
Is a skid lid really going to do anything aside from hold the top of your head on?

It's choice. Just be cautious with blanket statements.
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:34 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
At lizard-brain level we identify things as either "the same" or "the other."

We cast a jaundiced eye on "the other" as it might be a threat.

The trick is overcoming these instinctive intuitions and making a rational evaluation using scientific theory and proofs to substantiate the final decision, rather than only relying upon our basest instincts. (though base instincts have served us well and likewise should not be dismissed out of hand)

And some people will never overcome the ability to be controlled by rational evaluation and scientific theory in order to simply enjoy their base instincts.

I never would have skated a 24 stair handrail or gapped a twenty set if I always sided with logic. I would also drive a cage rather than ride.
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:37 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Jumping Jack Flash View Post

Is a skid lid really going to do anything aside from hold the top of your head on?

Buddy of mine (state trooper) use to tell me he preferred that riders wore full face helmets. Said it made it easier to find the heads in the dark and that the chin strap worked like a bucket handle...
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:47 AM   #81
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Choosing to not ride ATGATT, and denying its benefits are two entirely different things.
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:58 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Choosing to not ride ATGATT, and denying its benefits are two entirely different things.


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Old 01-08-2014, 08:05 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Beard View Post
And some people will never overcome the ability to be controlled by rational evaluation and scientific theory in order to simply enjoy the base instincts.

I never would have skated a 24 stair handrail or gapped a twenty set if I always sided with logic. I would also drive a cage rather than ride.
Well said!

Logic and reason is part of the recipe, as much as is passion.

Too much logical reasoning might lead to living life only in response to fear.

Too much unbridled passion may cloud awareness for potential danger.

As balance is applied between reason and passion the result delivers a satisfying life full of the rewards accomplishment brings. Pushing the edges of the envelope at these opposing sides from time to time, seldom lingering there. The art of life is best played out exploring the shades of grey between the two extremes. Linger on either edge and quality of life can quickly be diminished, or extinguished entirely.

Isn't maintaining this balance the dynamic process that is called living?
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MotoTex screwed with this post 01-08-2014 at 08:31 AM
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:11 AM   #84
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The laws of physics require no police or courts for enforcement.

Like ordinary laws, ignorance is no excuse. This ignorance is not confined to the Harley riders, but is does seem more prevalent among certain groups. Pirates and squids come readily to mind.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:04 AM   #85
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I feel boatload more peer pressure to wear gear than I do to go without. Maybe if I rode a cruiser or a Harley the pressure would go the other way? I think a ton of people wear gear to fit in, not necessarily because of safety.

And it doesn't bother me either way. I'll wear what I feel comfortable and safe in.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:37 AM   #86
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Eek not meeee

If the general sez on this mission one of three will die, one soldier looks to the guy on the left and the guy right and sez I'll look after your girlfriend.
If the general sez one out of a hundred will die, some people have the attitude that one will be me.

Inborn attitudes in of all of us. It won't happen to me is what these guys think.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:17 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Choosing to not ride ATGATT, and denying its benefits are two entirely different things.
Did anyone do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
As balance is applied between reason and passion the result delivers a satisfying life full of the rewards accomplishment brings. Pushing the edges of the envelope at these opposing sides from time to time, seldom lingering there. The art of life is best played out exploring the shades of grey between the two extremes. Linger on either edge and quality of life can quickly be diminished, or extinguished entirely.

Isn't maintaining this balance the dynamic process that is called living?
Is it? Who knows. Sure is, you're very complacent, trying to tell us how to live a satisfying life.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:21 AM   #88
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Still alive

I was rear ended on my Ducati and flew 40' and landed on my head knocking me unconscious for a few minutes. I'm writing this thanks to my Shoei full cover helmet. Everyone has choices and I'm thankful for mine that day. I have been riding for 46 years and have worn the best protective gear that was available at the time. Oh yeah, the Ducati was totalled as well as the Shoei.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:25 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sphyrnidus View Post
No the protective gear is nog going to work if you get hit by a car, but most likely you will still have your skin, while without protective gear, you won't.
Btw is there any evidence that coloured, hiviz or retroflective gear works on a motorcycle? As most have fairing and headlights on, it can hardly be seen and as most accidents happen at the front of the motorcycle, I don't think that it makes a lot of difference wether your dressed in black or yellow.
New Zealand, 2006 or so, and "yes". White or light colored jackets and helmets reduce incidence of multi-vehicle collision by 28%.

Not all motorcycles have large frontal areas. If you sit behind a huge white/yellow fairing, maybe the color of the jacket isn't as important, but the helmet might be. And with daytime running lights pretty much standard on cars now, the moto headlight doesn't stand out as much as it used to.

All my friends wear Aerostich RoadCrafters, hi-viz body with black ballistics (shoulders and forearm patches). Then they wear a traditional conspicuity vest (black with yellow reflective stripes) over the jacket- hiding most of the hi-viz. I wear grey with yellow shoulders / forearms, sometimes a vest, sometimes not. Helmets are white (modular) or silver (full face). depending on if I'm riding across town or cross country.

Of course, the stats may be skewed- because if someone's going to think about safety enough to buy a white helmet over a black one, they may also take other aspects of riding safety more seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cardoctor1 View Post
only need gear if you crash
77% of all moto crashes are the rider's fault, another 10% or so were avoidable by rider action.

As for riders choosing what [not] to wear when they go riding, I'm in the camp that thinks the ones who don't wear much, don't put much serious thought into it. I've been told "since I'm likely to die anyway, why wear all that junk?" which clearly discounts the thought that "all that junk" might reduce the level of injury. Not to mention, it can actually be more comfortable, if they get past the immediate perception, to gear up a little.

It's hard to properly place values on negative risk outcomes. This is a survival trait*, or we'd all still be in trees, throwing poop at the lions.

*As a species overall, not necessarily for the individual in particular; that is, the survivors can learn from the mistakes made by the recently deceased.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:36 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
New Zealand, 2006 or so, and "yes". White or light colored jackets and helmets reduce incidence of multi-vehicle collision by 28%.
[...]
77% of all moto crashes are the rider's fault, another 10% or so were avoidable by rider action.
It'd be interesting to know what's different between NZ and Europe. Here there is no evidence of color effecting crashes and 70% of the multi vehicle accidents are the cager's fault.

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As for riders choosing what [not] to wear when they go riding, I'm in the camp that thinks the ones who don't wear much, don't put much serious thought into it.
It's a pitty you join into the less self-reflecting crowd that thinks "who doesn't think like me doesn't think at all".

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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Not to mention, it can actually be more comfortable, if they get past the immediate perception, to gear up a little.
As well as it's sometimes more comfortable to leave the gear at home.
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