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Old 01-08-2014, 11:50 AM   #91
131unlimited
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
\


Motoport is one manufacturer who offers a variety of styles in pants and jackets using Keprotec. Including a jean cut pant for those looking for that style in a more durable material.

Works fine, lasts a long time.

FYI

Thanks for the heads up, checked out thier site, I'll be getting a pair of thier jeans to replace my draggin jeans. Good stuff !
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:13 PM   #92
Bill Harris
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Good points. OTOH, some may think that Hi-Vis gear and conspicuity lighting or headlight modulators can make you invincible. They don't-- all they can do is even the odds a bit that those who drive with awareness will see you; to the brain-dead, you're still invisible and you should ride like you are. Situational awareness and a well-tuned Spidey Sense still helpout...

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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
New Zealand, 2006 or so, and "yes". White or light colored jackets and helmets reduce incidence of multi-vehicle collision by 28%.

Not all motorcycles have large frontal areas. If you sit behind a huge white/yellow fairing, maybe the color of the jacket isn't as important, but the helmet might be. And with daytime running lights pretty much standard on cars now, the moto headlight doesn't stand out as much as it used to.

All my friends wear Aerostich RoadCrafters, hi-viz body with black ballistics (shoulders and forearm patches). Then they wear a traditional conspicuity vest (black with yellow reflective stripes) over the jacket- hiding most of the hi-viz. I wear grey with yellow shoulders / forearms, sometimes a vest, sometimes not. Helmets are white (modular) or silver (full face). depending on if I'm riding across town or cross country.

Of course, the stats may be skewed- because if someone's going to think about safety enough to buy a white helmet over a black one, they may also take other aspects of riding safety more seriously.


77% of all moto crashes are the rider's fault, another 10% or so were avoidable by rider action.

As for riders choosing what [not] to wear when they go riding, I'm in the camp that thinks the ones who don't wear much, don't put much serious thought into it. I've been told "since I'm likely to die anyway, why wear all that junk?" which clearly discounts the thought that "all that junk" might reduce the level of injury. Not to mention, it can actually be more comfortable, if they get past the immediate perception, to gear up a little.

It's hard to properly place values on negative risk outcomes. This is a survival trait*, or we'd all still be in trees, throwing poop at the lions.

*As a species overall, not necessarily for the individual in particular; that is, the survivors can learn from the mistakes made by the recently deceased.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:44 PM   #93
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In my view if you wear gear you will live til you are old and if you dont wear gear you will end up dieing young.

i ride in full gear and wear a full face or a mx helmet.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:17 PM   #94
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Read this:
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=944301
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:58 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by orangebear View Post
In my view if you wear gear you will live til you are old and if you dont wear gear you will end up dieing young.

i ride in full gear and wear a full face or a mx helmet.
Wanna tell that story to the mother and wife of the 41 year old killed yesterday here in my town?

Hit the back end of a pickup in heavy interstate traffic when cars in his lane suddenly slowed. Fell off the bike after impact and rolled into an adjacent lane where he was run over by other car.

Full face helmet and top-noth gear is no match when run over by a 3000+lb car.

Gear is important but by no means a guarantee that one will live to an old age.
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:13 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Wanna tell that story to the mother and wife of the 41 year old killed yesterday here in my town?

Hit the back end of a pickup in heavy interstate traffic when cars in his lane suddenly slowed. Fell off the bike after impact and rolled into an adjacent lane where he was run over by other car.

Full face helmet and top-noth gear is no match when run over by a 3000+lb car.

Gear is important but by no means a guarantee that one will live to an old age.
But wearing gear will be better then no go if you slid down the road.
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:25 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Wanna tell that story to the mother and wife of the 41 year old killed yesterday here in my town?

Hit the back end of a pickup in heavy interstate traffic when cars in his lane suddenly slowed. Fell off the bike after impact and rolled into an adjacent lane where he was run over by other car.

Full face helmet and top-noth gear is no match when run over by a 3000+lb car.

Gear is important but by no means a guarantee that one will live to an old age.
That sounds like a riding skills issue more than a lack of gear issue. No reason to run into the back of a car unless you dont have sufficient braking skills, or you're not paying attention. Dont even get me started on the lack of training offered to riders in this country. Or, how its perfectly legal to walk into a dealer and buy a 1000lb bike with no experience and a piece of paper that you filled in at the DOT the same day. Without demonstrating any proficiency.
That my friends, is a whole other debate.
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:46 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by steelerider View Post
that sounds like a riding skills issue more than a lack of gear issue. No reason to run into the back of a car unless you dont have sufficient braking skills, or you're not paying attention. Dont even get me started on the lack of training offered to riders in this country. Or, how its perfectly legal to walk into a dealer and buy a 1000lb bike with no experience and a piece of paper that you filled in at the dot the same day. Without demonstrating any proficiency.
That my friends, is a whole other debate.
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Old 01-08-2014, 04:50 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by steelerider View Post
That sounds like a riding skills issue more than a lack of gear issue.
Don't disagree.

We here on ADV are exceptional riders and never make mistakes so I'm obviously preaching to the choir but most motorcycle accidents are rider error.

Does wearing more gear lead to increased risk taking?

Most here would probably say "no, not for me". I think otherwise.

Would you run through the nicest series of twisties at the same pace if in shorts, no helmet, and no gloves as you would fully geared? Of course this question really only applies to those that have ridden on occasion without all the gear......if you've never ridden without gear you really can't honeslty answer the question. My guess is without gear we would ride a little slower, wouldn't push the corners quite so hard, would leave a little more space between the cars in front, and slow a little more when appraoching an intersection or blind curve.

If you can honestly answer your riding would not change then you are an incredibly disciplined rider and my hats off to you.

Just something to think about, agree or disagree, no worries.
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:37 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Good points. OTOH, some may think that Hi-Vis gear and conspicuity lighting or headlight modulators can make you invincible. They don't-- all they can do is even the odds a bit that those who drive with awareness will see you; to the brain-dead, you're still invisible and you should ride like you are. Situational awareness and a well-tuned Spidey Sense still helpout...

--Bill
All good points Bill.

I wear a well constructed 100% canary yellow textile jacket with black leather pants in preference to a all leather outfit. Would a leather jacket provide better protection when I'm sliding down the road? No doubt. However I feel my overall safety is significantly better by trying to avoid a problem in the first place.

However sometime when its bucketing down rain and I have to get to work dry, I'll wear an old snow ski jacket and pants. If you ski in Australia you'll know why our ski gear has to be 100% waterproof. Anyhow, to the point. The ski cloths are dark blue and grey.

I certainly don't feel invincible when I wear my 100% yellow jacket, but I sure as hell feel really vunerable when I wear the dark coloured ski gear.
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Old 01-08-2014, 07:37 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Don't disagree.

We here on ADV are exceptional riders and never make mistakes so I'm obviously preaching to the choir but most motorcycle accidents are rider error.

Does wearing more gear lead to increased risk taking?

Most here would probably say "no, not for me". I think otherwise.

Would you run through the nicest series of twisties at the same pace if in shorts, no helmet, and no gloves as you would fully geared? Of course this question really only applies to those that have ridden on occasion without all the gear......if you've never ridden without gear you really can't honeslty answer the question. My guess is without gear we would ride a little slower, wouldn't push the corners quite so hard, would leave a little more space between the cars in front, and slow a little more when appraoching an intersection or blind curve.

If you can honestly answer your riding would not change then you are an incredibly disciplined rider and my hats off to you.

Just something to think about, agree or disagree, no worries.
Yes, I have ridden with no gear. Yes, I would ride differently without it, but saying that makes you safer, requiring less gear is a red herring argument. You may be less likely to have an accident, but its more likely your injuries will be more severe

My last get-off about 10 years ago was a freak low speed high side on a straight.section of road where antifreeze had been spilled on a fresh tar strip while riding a V-Star 650 classic. Besides the ff helmet, I was only wearing work gloves, hiking boots, and an insulated rain suit over work clothes.
I landed head first and was knocked unconscious, being low speed I didn't slide, so no roadrash or other injuries.
Judging by the dent and cracks in the shell of my helmet, I have no doubt it would have been a fatal blow to the forehead if I had not been wearing helmet.

It was so unexpected and conditions so benign I can honestly say I wouldn't have done anything differently if I hadn't been wearing any gear.

IMO, the only honest justification for wearing no gear is you accept the increased risk of injury in a crash.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:13 PM   #102
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IMO, the only honest justification for wearing no gear is you accept the increased risk of injury in a crash.
Maybe not the only honest justification. Could also be that you honestly do not believe that the risk exists for you at all. (or believe that the prescribed gear will protect you from all possible risks.)

Is there anything dishonest about ignoring an uncomfortable truth that lies between those two extremes?

Is ignorance considered dishonesty?
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:42 PM   #103
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:07 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
Does wearing more gear lead to increased risk taking? Most here would probably say "no, not for me".

Would you run through the nicest series of twisties at the same pace if in shorts, no helmet, and no gloves as you would fully geared? Of course this question really only applies to those that have ridden on occasion without all the gear......if you've never ridden without gear you really can't honeslty answer the question.
I think you may have a fundamental flaw in your question/comment. That is your assuming the only risk to the rider is a mistake in the twisties from going faster.

Anyone with half a brain will ride slower only dressed in shorts. But in the real-world this person dressed only in shorts going slower in the twisties on a public road with other traffic is actually engaging in significantly increased risk-taking behaviour. I've never put my bike down in the twisties in my life, but someone tries to kill me just about ever day in peak hour traffic.

I select and wear protective gear principally to protect me from others mistakes. That it allows me to enjoy my sport more and protect me if I make a mistake is a bonus.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:19 PM   #105
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The most interesting statistic to me would be how many riders who have suffered a significant injury while wearing no gear return to biking and now go ATGATT.

I remember very well the weeks of discomfort from a pretty small patch of road rash on my backside. I wear gear now because I don't want to go through that again.

It's pretty easy to believe "it won't happen to me"
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