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Old 01-17-2014, 05:40 PM   #16
DesertTortoise
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In the class they called it "all four down"
straighten the bike first then clutch in, downshifting to first, front and rear brake progressively
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:36 PM   #17
390beretta OP
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
When I need to stop fast, I almost always end up with the clutch pulled and the bike it too high a gear. But at least she is running. Thankfully, I don't have many panic stops and most of those are on dirt. I have to agree that usually the priority is to simply get stopped or slowed enough.
Pantah, glad you're here; almost sent you a pm asking you to chime in. I don't have a lot of panic stops either. I like to think it's because of my awareness and riding style. But, who knows?
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:07 PM   #18
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The rear brake is powerful enough not to need engine braking. Also the braking power is more easily controlled when the engine doesn't interfere, especially if it's nearly stalling.
I was told in riding school to pull the clutch but not shift down because it's better to focus only on the braking. I think that might be good advice for beginners, but never liked it for myself.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:02 PM   #19
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Braking hard from 80 mph in traffic is different from braking hard from 20mph in a parking lot, just as what the MSF class teaches is different from what keeps you alive on the road.
Think about it people.
Do you want to be in fifth or sixth gear at a standstill with fast and oblivious traffic coming up your ass?? Do you want to think about throttle control and finger - toe coordination while you are trying your hardest to stop?

There is a lot to this question.
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:33 AM   #20
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I took the class in June and like others said, you do lose points for not pulling in the clutch and also down shifting during emergency stops.
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:45 AM   #21
Dexter2811
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Pull the clutch! You want to stop in the shortest distance, if you don't pull the clutch, the engine will keep the transmission rotating, any rotation will be translated into movement, you want to stop, not to move.

That's what they told me in a secure driving class I took (we don't have nothing similar to MSF down here)

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Old 01-18-2014, 03:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Dexter2811 View Post
Pull the clutch! You want to stop in the shortest distance, if you don't pull the clutch, the engine will keep the transmission rotating, any rotation will be translated into movement, you want to stop, not to move.

That's what they told me in a secure driving class I took (we don't have nothing similar to MSF down here)

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Downshifting and engine braking must be a drum brake thing.
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Old 01-18-2014, 03:57 AM   #23
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It's still forward movement... think about it.

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Old 01-18-2014, 05:46 AM   #24
Stan_R80/7
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Current MSF doctrine is to down shift to 1st while emergency braking. The reason is to be able to rapidly move if the vehicle behind you can't brake as quickly. Every time I try to emergency brake without pulling in the clutch - the engine dies.

How do you prevent the engine from dieing if the clutch is not pulled in during an emergency stop?
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:04 AM   #25
390beretta OP
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Originally Posted by Stan_R80/7 View Post
Current MSF doctrine is to down shift to 1st while emergency braking. The reason is to be able to rapidly move if the vehicle behind you can't brake as quickly. Every time I try to emergency brake without pulling in the clutch - the engine dies.

How do you prevent the engine from dieing if the clutch is not pulled in during an emergency stop?
Well, good question. I guess I see a difference between an "emergency stop" and for lack of a better term a "quick stop". For the sake of an explanation, in my mind, a true emergency stop almost assumes you're gonna hit something unless you get very lucky. A "quick stop" assumes that, provided you have the skill, you've got a good chance of not hitting something. Of course either kind of stop can be caused by the same incident....someone turning left in front of you, pulling out from a side street etc. The difference is measured in split seconds, the rider's awareness, anticipation etc. In a true emergency stop, I doubt that I'd have the presence of mind to shift down, worry about killing the engine, etc. Hope that makes sense.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:12 AM   #26
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my i did my bike test in the uk in 2007 i was told to go hard on the brakes more front than rear and only pull the clutch in when then the bike is about to cut out then change in to 1st when you are stopped. you fail the test if you pull the clutch in when the brakes are hard on as you will be costing and not having engine braking.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:22 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
The rear brake is powerful enough not to need engine braking. Also the braking power is more easily controlled when the engine doesn't interfere, especially if it's nearly stalling.
I was told in riding school to pull the clutch but not shift down because it's better to focus only on the braking. I think that might be good advice for beginners, but never liked it for myself.
This. The key word in the OP is 'emergency'. The rider has all of his/her focus on making the stop and avoiding the source of predicted initial impact. Disconnecting the engine allows the proper braking feel to keep the tires doing their best. A connected stalled engine does not allow proper modulation of the rear brake. Nothing quite like getting off the brake of a sliding rear wheel only to have the engine fire with half throttle in a tall gear.

The dowside of this teaching method for noobs is that they tend to have a more severe panic reaction tensing up and not being able to modulate the brakes and steering much less think of options while in the moment.

Even exerienced riders can get so 'caught out' in an emergency stop that they execute it poorly due to lack of practice. I can't remember when I had to make a full-on 100% emergency stop? My riding habits are of a sort to keep me from ever having to execute that again. Now that I have typed that, watch me come around a curve and hit a moose due to being so stunned by the sight that I will have completely forgotten how to ride and years of making great habits totally fail me. Sigh.

BTW, many emergency stops for experienced riders do not end in a complete standstill. Some riders are looking for 'outs' and 'safety holes' while braking hard. Commiting, or having to commite, to nothing but a full-on braking is a pretty good sign that one is still a noob in the situational awareness area of riding. And that does not excuse the experienced rider from further regular braking practice.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:33 AM   #28
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Growing up on dirt, it has become instinct to pull the clutch. 2 stroke engines stall easier and the lurching, stalling bike can send you into a tree. It also stinks having to kick it back to life after a hard stop.

A 1 liter 4 stroke may be a little harder to stall, but its also harder to stop and the engaged engine can push you forward with more force. I treat it the same as I would a car with a manual transmission.
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Old 01-18-2014, 01:12 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
However, in none of the classes was it mentioned that one should also be shifting down during the braking process.??
in a few hundreds stop lights or intersections, clutch-in & downshifting will be natural to you. dont worry, your hands and foot will do it before you realize... there is no hurry to teach it, every rider figures it out after stalling a few times, even during the course!

so, during emergency, your natural reaction will be to clutch-in and downshift.

Just write it down in your phone in a reminder 1-2 years from now, you'll see what you learned then...

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Old 01-18-2014, 01:27 PM   #30
390beretta OP
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in a few hundreds stop lights or intersections, clutch-in & downshifting will be natural to you. dont worry, your hands and foot will do it before you realize... there is no hurry to teach it, every rider figures it out after stalling a few times, even during the course!

so, during emergency, your natural reaction will be to clutch-in and downshift.

Just write it down in your phone in a reminder 1-2 years from now, you'll see what you learned then...

Uh, thanks; but did you read the part where I said I've been riding for many years?
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