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Old 01-23-2014, 04:05 PM   #316
Bar None
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waveydavey View Post
Better be careful with that social cost rhetoric or we won't be riding at all. Atgatt or not.
Yep, I'm real worried about that, NOT!
Get serious,please.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:07 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
That was kinda the point I'm pointing at.

When there isn't adequate data, or more accurately, when the analysis of the data isn't sifted in an honest attempt to prove AND to disprove an argument, then the data will likely show a bias toward the concept the person sifting the data was looking for.

Seek and ye shall find. The corollary being you won't find what isn't being sought.

This idea of honestly looking at both sides is the basis of the scientific method. It is ponderous, and absolutely demands the ability to honestly take the side of the devil's advocate in order to return balanced, factual data painting a picture closer to true. Rarely do statistics reflect any sincere dedication to this approach.

There have been plenty of experiments conducted proving conclusively that the person performing any study or experiment will often affect the results unwittingly merely by their having a conscious intent toward a particular outcome. It takes discipline to even consider avoiding this influence. It may be impossible to avoid it entirely.

See "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart as a study that offers references to research along these lines in many disciplines of the scientific community, from sociology to quantum physics.

A film covering similar findings was "What the bleep do we know?"

Suffice it to say that each person has a small influence over the things around them. Measured to be on average around the 1% level. Sometimes 1% in your favor is all you need. (in a 50/50 situation 1% tips the scales) So, believing that riding without gear is safe offers some miniscule degree of leverage of it being true. For that individual. Likewise belief in ATGATT does as well. And, riding without gear or with, and repeatedly thinking about crashing lends the same 1% influence on that as well.

Ah, the power of positive thinking has been proven, conclusively. As has the power of negative thinking.

Keep that in mind next time you throw a leg over the saddle.
Blah blah blah.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:40 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Barnone View Post
Blah blah blah.
Jesus! Some of you Morans refuse to be educated, or even to consider a new idea. This poster is obviously educated and impartial. Yet you refuse to....oh, hell, nevermind.
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Old 01-23-2014, 04:57 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnone View Post
Blah blah blah.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:05 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.
He thought and disagreed. Why does that bother some so much?
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:22 PM   #321
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He thought and disagreed. Why does that bother some so much?
You're right. It really doesn't.

Was just feeling a little snarky.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:24 PM   #322
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Samaritan vs Pharisee

From an ethical point of view the argument of social cost -whether pro or con- is essentially immoral.


It equals the opinion of some surgeons objecting to operate on smokers or obese, because "it is their fault".

It comes down on passing by a victim and not providing assistance.

It doesn't matter what the reasons are, whether valid in a twisted concept, someone passed a being, and refused it its aid. Which is immoral.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:30 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
You're right. It really doesn't.

Was just feeling a little snarky.
You're ALWAYS snarky.
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Old 01-23-2014, 05:33 PM   #324
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You're ALWAYS snarky.
No argument from me there.
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Old 01-23-2014, 06:35 PM   #325
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John[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
Shouldn't one of the options be:

4) knew what should be done, but didn't because of time/effort/short distance to travel etc.
Well...no. Not according to YOU. You've excluded this possibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
They do it, because everyone else is doing it.

.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
Hi D,
I'll always think someone not wearing a helmet or wearing shorts and t-shirt is foolish for example.

Regarding "personal choices", are they really making an individual choice, or going with the crowd, wanting to fit in, in effect 'group think'? We're all guilt of it to various degrees.

Now, dont go backpedaling and start to allow other reasons why someone might choose to not wear gear. You made your bed. You stated your case. You cited that it must be peer pressure, which is just a fancy way of saying that these people are not capable of thinking for themselves. Or that they're just foolish.
Frankly, I dont have the time or patience to go back to the beginning of this thread and multi-quote all the cheap shots taken by gear nazis. If you're interested, go back and count the times when the words, ignorant, peer pressure, foolish, stupid, fashion, etc have been used.
Not once has any of the gear nazis acknowledged that someone riding without gear might actually be a completely sane person, who knows the ramifications of his actions, but has decided to live his life OUTSIDE the plastic bubble in which others to choose to live. Not once, that is...until you just did, and only because you didn't like the corner you painted yourself into.
And honestly, the answer was in the second post and has been repeated only a couple of times by others here. Now, this forum being ADVrider, which is notoriously famous for HD bashing members, is filled with folks who proudly shout,"I'm ATTGAT!" and then the peer group chimes in and pats themselves on their backs cuz they are, too. Well....aren't we sooooo much smarter and cooler than those Harley guys.!!!
One could contend that this forum is a huge support group for people who are so afraid of getting a little boo boo that they have to wear lime green or hi viz pink jumpsuits and then rely on their like minded friends to tell them they look cool, not ridiculous.
CD
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:11 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rango View Post
From an ethical point of view the argument of social cost -whether pro or con- is essentially immoral.


It equals the opinion of some surgeons objecting to operate on smokers or obese, because "it is their fault".

It comes down on passing by a victim and not providing assistance.

It doesn't matter what the reasons are, whether valid in a twisted concept, someone passed a being, and refused it its aid. Which is immoral.
I do not think anyone is advocating not treating them. If they were, I would agree with you. The "moral obligation" people have an issue with is being forced to pay for others' (what they perceive as) bad decisions.

Again, not taking sides.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:21 PM   #327
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I'm new to this thread but did read all the way through. I don't give a rats behind what other people want to wear. Want to fit in? Peer pressure? I don't really care. I believe in free will and personal responsibility. To many people around telling other people how to live or looking down on people for not living like they do.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:30 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Dusty1013 View Post
I'm new to this thread but did read all the way through. I don't give a rats behind what other people want to wear. Want to fit in? Peer pressure? I don't really care. I believe in free will and personal responsibility. To many people around telling other people how to live or looking down on people for not living like they do.
Good for you man! Ride Safe!
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:45 PM   #329
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I do see this guy in town every summer who rides a CBR and always wears flip flops, shorts, a t-shirt and sunglasses. I was behind him one day at a stoplight on my KTM Super Duke wearing KTM gear head to toe and thought it would be a good picture showing both ends of the spectrum. To each his own.
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Old 01-23-2014, 09:16 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rango View Post
From an ethical point of view the argument of social cost -whether pro or con- is essentially immoral.


It equals the opinion of some surgeons objecting to operate on smokers or obese, because "it is their fault".

It comes down on passing by a victim and not providing assistance.

It doesn't matter what the reasons are, whether valid in a twisted concept, someone passed a being, and refused it its aid. Which is immoral.
post of the week
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cheers
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