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Old 01-16-2014, 12:50 PM   #256
ridetheblock
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Joined: Apr 2012
Oddometer: 8
An update on my 3 problematic batteries:
LFX27 (I thought it was the 36 but apparently its a 27 - realized when I removed from the bike): it started my bike once (1978 Guzzi), then I let it sit a couple weeks, then it didn't even turn on the neutral light when turning on the key. This bike had been fine previously with a conventional battery. I checked for drain while the key is off - zero amps going through. Attempted to charge the battery - no dice, never did start the bike again (this was a couple months ago - temps still fine).

LFX12: I got this for a Berg and it never did start that bike. OK, it has a lot of compression (though it is stock), so I tried it on several other bikes. Its never started anything else, including a Vespa scooter.

LFX07: I got this for a ZB50 Mini bike. Did ok in there a while, not even electric start mind you. then I used it on an LT80 quad for the kids. Worked ok a little while, then died. Never has taken a charge since.

With all of these, I tried a Battery Tender first. No dice. So I bought the Shorai charger - no dice. The LFX27 only gets to 10.1V after repeated attempts. LFX12 gets to 14.1V but again, won't even come close to starting even a scooter. LFX07 only gets to 13.4V.

Spoke again with the Shorai rep. I must say, I'm impressed with the customer service so far. Not only does the right person actually answer the phone number on their website, but after some checking and attempted charging, they have agreed to upgrade me the following:
  • LFX27 to LFX36 for $55, which is the difference in price (same battery dimensions so why not)
  • LFX12 to LFX14 - free, and dimensions are smaller on the 14(?)
  • LFX07 to LFX09 - $15
So I filled out the RMA and the batteries are going in the mail today. Ill update when something new happens.

ridetheblock screwed with this post 01-16-2014 at 01:46 PM
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Old 01-16-2014, 02:59 PM   #257
_cy_
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Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 5,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheblock View Post
An update on my 3 problematic batteries:
LFX27 (I thought it was the 36 but apparently its a 27 - realized when I removed from the bike): it started my bike once (1978 Guzzi), then I let it sit a couple weeks, then it didn't even turn on the neutral light when turning on the key. This bike had been fine previously with a conventional battery. I checked for drain while the key is off - zero amps going through. Attempted to charge the battery - no dice, never did start the bike again (this was a couple months ago - temps still fine).

LFX12: I got this for a Berg and it never did start that bike. OK, it has a lot of compression (though it is stock), so I tried it on several other bikes. Its never started anything else, including a Vespa scooter.

LFX07: I got this for a ZB50 Mini bike. Did ok in there a while, not even electric start mind you. then I used it on an LT80 quad for the kids. Worked ok a little while, then died. Never has taken a charge since.

With all of these, I tried a Battery Tender first. No dice. So I bought the Shorai charger - no dice. The LFX27 only gets to 10.1V after repeated attempts. LFX12 gets to 14.1V but again, won't even come close to starting even a scooter. LFX07 only gets to 13.4V.

Spoke again with the Shorai rep. I must say, I'm impressed with the customer service so far. Not only does the right person actually answer the phone number on their website, but after some checking and attempted charging, they have agreed to upgrade me the following:
  • LFX27 to LFX36 for $55, which is the difference in price (same battery dimensions so why not)
  • LFX12 to LFX14 - free, and dimensions are smaller on the 14(?)
  • LFX07 to LFX09 - $15
So I filled out the RMA and the batteries are going in the mail today. Ill update when something new happens.
there's some really nice folks at Shorai!

LFX27 weight is 4lb, which should be about 10AH actual battery. that should have been stout enough for your guzzi in all but coldest conditions.

please measure at battery your alternator's output at 3k rpm and post back. if you are not getting about 14.2v something is wrong ... typically airheads and guzzi have persistent low voltage charging problems combined with low wattage output. guzzi has a separate diode board .. B+ wire and ground strap wires on diode board gives problems.

here's the wiring kit for airheads for $15 some of it may fit guzzi .. solder ends on B+ wire if possible

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:12 AM   #258
ridetheblock
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Joined: Apr 2012
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Thanks for that info - I'll measure the Goose juice next time I start it. That wasn't the issue with this battery though - I installed the battery, started the bike, let it run maybe a minute, then shut it off. Then it sat in the garage a week or two - when I went to start it the next time to go for a ride - nothing. Voltage at 10.X. That bike didn't run long enough for a weak or even zero charging voltage to be the issue on the battery charge. And like I said, zero drain with key off according to my trusty Fluke.
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:14 AM   #259
_cy_
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Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheblock View Post
Thanks for that info - I'll measure the Goose juice next time I start it. That wasn't the issue with this battery though - I installed the battery, started the bike, let it run maybe a minute, then shut it off. Then it sat in the garage a week or two - when I went to start it the next time to go for a ride - nothing. Voltage at 10.X. That bike didn't run long enough for a weak or even zero charging voltage to be the issue on the battery charge. And like I said, zero drain with key off according to my trusty Fluke.
Ok .. good to know you've got a Fluke to measure voltage with. if you've measured parasitic drain .. how many milliamps? if there was little to no parasitic drain and you started with charged LFX27 of 13.3v (90%) .. if that battery went dead on it's own in two weeks .. it's a dud

a good LiFePO4 battery will easily hold it's charge for a year .. LiFePO4 has extremely low self discharge. to find out if your Shorai has a BMS .. charge to full or 14.6v .. then allow to rest overnight .. resting voltage will be 14.25 range without BMS .. 13.85v range with BMS .. cell balancing works by shunting off excess voltage after cell full, allowing weaker cells to recover. that's the short version of how BMS works .. detailed version in LiFePO4 testing thread.
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:46 AM   #260
ridetheblock
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zero milliamps flowing between neg cable and neg terminal on the battery with key off. Expect to hear something from Shorai late next week - will update.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #261
_cy_
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Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridetheblock View Post
zero milliamps flowing between neg cable and neg terminal on the battery with key off. Expect to hear something from Shorai late next week - will update.
that's good to know .. no parasitic drain. something simple as leaving your key on can drain your battery completely to dead. what kills LiFePO4 is leaving battery in total discharge state for extended periods.

not saying you did this .. but accidentally leaving your key on for a few weeks .. will drain any battery completely dead.. killing it.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:59 PM   #262
Qwik
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California
Oddometer: 6,013
Had an issue with my 18A1. Called them and was asked to fill out an RMA and bring it in ( they are four miles from my house) so I went by. They gave me a new battery and I bought one of their chargers. I have the same battery in my Busa as well. I'm very impressed by the customer service and I'm happy with the batteries.
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Old 01-24-2014, 09:51 AM   #263
_cy_
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Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 5,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwik View Post
Had an issue with my 18A1. Called them and was asked to fill out an RMA and bring it in ( they are four miles from my house) so I went by. They gave me a new battery and I bought one of their chargers. I have the same battery in my Busa as well. I'm very impressed by the customer service and I'm happy with the batteries.
more information please ... what motorcycle did the Shorai LFX18A1 fail in how did it happen?

we already know the folks at Shorai has excellent customer service and will replace batteries for reasons not their fault. consumers installing recommended LiFePO4 models, which are severely undersized leading to early failure is not the fault of customer.

wouldn't it be good to figure out why your LFX18 A1 failed? otherwise it may fail again .. next time not under warranty.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:11 AM   #264
Qwik
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Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Sunnyvale, California
Oddometer: 6,013
Im chasing an electrical gremlin on my 05.5 950ADV. The battery was pulled down to near flat and I believe that while trying to start the bike thinking the battery needed a heat cycle that I killed it completely. Seeing that they are very close I called Customer service and was told to bring it in. They handed me a fresh battery on the spot with no hesitation.
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Old 01-27-2014, 09:09 AM   #265
ridetheblock
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Closing the loop on my 3 failed batteries - FedEx just brought 3 new batteries. So we will see how these perform. While I can't say I've had good luck with their products (yet), I can say that their customer service is excellent! Very impressed with how they handled my issues. Kudos to Shorai on their service!
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:59 PM   #266
ChasM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Loomis, CA (Sacramento area)
Oddometer: 167
I ran a Shorai LFX 18 battery in my 990 SMT which worked fine until it would no longer turn the engine over. After discussing the problem with Shorai, they did replace the battery with a new unit under warranty. Note that the 18 Ah rating, as already mentioned, is greatly exaggerated.

I have used the Shorai LFX 12 battery in my Beta dual sport bike and it was no longer functioning after about a year. I have had much better success with 5 Ah TurnTech batteries in my dirt bikes. Currently over six years in my '08 KTM HTR 350 XCF-W and still going strong; eight years in my '04 KTM 540 EXC and still going strong with the current owner of the bike.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:18 PM   #267
_cy_
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Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 5,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasM View Post
I ran a Shorai LFX 18 battery in my 990 SMT which worked fine until it would no longer turn the engine over. After discussing the problem with Shorai, they did replace the battery with a new unit under warranty. Note that the 18 Ah rating, as already mentioned, is greatly exaggerated.

I have used the Shorai LFX 12 battery in my Beta dual sport bike and it was no longer functioning after about a year. I have had much better success with 5 Ah TurnTech batteries in my dirt bikes. Currently over six years in my '08 KTM HTR 350 XCF-W and still going strong; eight years in my '04 KTM 540 EXC and still going strong with the current owner of the bike.
early Shorai LFX18 were 5AH actual .. some of the current LFX18 are about 7AH actual. both would be marginal for moderate temps. certainly not enough AH capacity for adventure duties far from support including cold temps.

for adventure duties stuff the largest LiFePO4 that fits into 990 battery tray .. that would be EarthX ETX36 (14AH) .. folks that's gone this route has reported excellent results even with cold temp starts.

it's a good idea to keep track of LiFePO4 voltage with putting bike away for the night. 13.3v (90%) is desired voltage and indicates everything is working well.

a desirable upgrade for 950/990 is MOSFET R/R ...

are you saying you've had a 5AH Turntech LiFePO4 installed in two of your bikes for 6 years and 8 years?
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Old 01-28-2014, 08:59 PM   #268
ChasM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Loomis, CA (Sacramento area)
Oddometer: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
Are you saying you've had a 5AH Turntech LiFePO4 installed in two of your bikes for 6 years and 8 years?

Absolutely. 6+ years, 8,332 miles (411 hours) in my '08 350 and 8+ years, 14,000+ miles (640 hours) in my '04 540 EXC which I sold to a friend about 2 years ago. Note that the 540 had one of the older shrink wrap versions of the TurnTech battery.
__________________
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'14 BMW R1200GS LC
'09 Beta 565 RS (with Revloc)
'08 KTM HTR 350 XCF-W(Revloc
'74 Norton 850 Commando
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:23 PM   #269
_cy_
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Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Oddometer: 5,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasM View Post
Absolutely. 6+ years, 8,332 miles (411 hours) in my '08 350 and 8+ years, 14,000+ miles (640 hours) in my '04 540 EXC which I sold to a friend about 2 years ago. Note that the 540 had one of the older shrink wrap versions of the TurnTech battery.
that's got to be one of the oldest installation feedback for 12v motorcycle LiFePO4.

any chance you could post pictures showing LiFePO4 model number and motorcycle?
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:49 AM   #270
ChasM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Loomis, CA (Sacramento area)
Oddometer: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
that's got to be one of the oldest installation feedback for 12v motorcycle LiFePO4.

any chance you could post pictures showing LiFePO4 model number and motorcycle?

The TurnTech battery in the '04 KTM was one of the original 5Ah versions and the TurnTech battery in the '08 KTM is one of the earlier plastic encased 5Ah versions. Rather than trying to warranty replace the defunct Shorai LFX 14 in my '09 Beta 565 RS, I replaced it with the latest TurnTech 5Ah battery which now has the same dimensions of the stock battery. The reason I didn't go with the TurnTech originally is that at the time the available battery wouldn't fit between the Beta frame rails.
__________________
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'14 BMW R1200GS LC
'09 Beta 565 RS (with Revloc)
'08 KTM HTR 350 XCF-W(Revloc
'74 Norton 850 Commando
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