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Old 01-25-2014, 05:23 AM   #61
BossMaverick
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IMHO:
Triangle of light>Hi-Viz>Light Colors>Dark Colors

Of course there is always more too it than that, but that is my opinion simply put.

The ultimate answer is that there is no perfect solution. If people can't see (or don't care about) huge freight trains that have a very bright triangle of light, are painted orange, have LOUD horns, and cross at only mark crossings, there is less hope for motorcyclists.
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Old 01-25-2014, 06:00 AM   #62
bracky72
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It works great for being seen by everybody except the jerk that hits you. Don't ask me how I know.
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:04 AM   #63
Grinnin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty1013 View Post
"Well if your that scared why even ride?"

So are you a hi-viz believer or think it doesn't matter or is very low on the cool factor?
When someone assigns a motivation to anyone else's actions the discussion often is not about the subject anymore. "You're not man enough to ride a 'real' bike." "You hate America." "You're scared so you wear those crash pads and ugly jacket."

I didn't hear your conversation but you probably shortened it to fit it into a post. It's possible that assigning you the ugliest motivation is an attempt to shame you into conforming to what the cool kids do. Happens on this forum with everything from the cool dual-sport to the most authentic experience.

People can wear hi-viz without being scared or believing in magic. But those two accusations can put you on the defensive. Once you start trying to defend yourself from the false motivation you've half lost the argument.
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:35 AM   #64
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I ride a KLR and always wear my grey Motoport jacket and black pants.
I alternate days between my 2 FF helmets, 1 is white and the other black.
I believe other drivers give me more room when I wear the white helmet over the black one. I assume because it's more visible, but some others have mentioned it might trigger some reflex in drivers brains "White Helmet = Cop".

I keep a high vis vest in my top box and always put it on when it's raining or when riding after dark, or riding in the woods during hunting season. I believe I should probably wear it more often, but most of my riding is just my 15 minute commute to work on back-roads. I know, famous last words...
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:36 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
High-viz is good for helping drivers who are paying attention see you sooner, but shouldn't be considered helpful attracting the attention of those who aren't.

So no, I don't consider it an effective safety device.
I agree,if high-viz gear is making you trust a car driver even a little bit,throw the high-viz in the dumpster. Car drivers are out to kill you 100% of the time,this may not be true but if you want to last long you gotta ride that way.

I had a hi-viz jacket briefly and could not force myself to put the thing on much,and if worn much it fades,becomes bug/dirt stained and until its not really hi-viz anymore. But is as ugly/grubby a piece of clothing as can be bought.
I guess looks matter some. Target fixation is also a proven thing,some cage drivers fixate on bright objects and drive straight into them,maybe camo is better.
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Old 01-25-2014, 07:42 AM   #66
Foot dragger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla King View Post

anyone who thinks their personal safety is dependent on someone else seeing them and giving a shit has already blown it.
+1. All is lost the minute you think a car driver sees you because he is looking you in the eye . Their mind is far away dreaming of pleasant beaches or how to sneak the girlfriend by the wife for another month.
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:06 AM   #67
Stan_R80/7
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I am a firm believer in accident data and statistics. My primary faith in them is that politics and greed do not appear to have tainted the data. As such, most (~80%) motorcycles accidents happen with the motorcycle hitting something in front of them. If a headlight(s) aren't making you more visible - a hi-viz jacket or helmet will not either. Hi-viz will not help with cell phone users, distracted drivers, bicyclists, slower traffic, etc.

I believe (with no statistical or anecdotal evidence) that one is less likely to get run over by following traffic after falling off a motorcycle on a busy highway when wearing Hi-viz. I also believe that the chances of getting hit from the rear are slightly reduced when wearing Hi-viz. But, the improvement is slight. Where I see Hi-viz being a more significant improvement is when riding with traffic in multiple lanes in the same direction. While the accident rate is already low in such circumstances, I still believe Hi-viz provides some benefit.

The above is not to discount the psychological effect of color schemes on human behavior. When people are conditioned to slow down around construction crews and others in the road wearing Hi-viz clothing that same effect should be associated with a motorcyclist wearing Hi-viz. However, that is conjecture on my part.

I always ride like I am invisible. With such a mindset, having a black jacket may provide some psychological advantage - as in "damn, no one will notice me while wearing this". I also ride with the mindset that all drivers on the road are morons and retards with barely enough ability to operate their motor vehicle - as in "I need to keep an eye on this moron".
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Old 01-25-2014, 08:36 AM   #68
Dranrab Luap
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I am a believer that high vis as a single layer of a comprehensive safety system has its place. I participate in a lot of mishap analysis professionally. It's rarely ever a single factor that causes a mishap. It's multiple. For that reason layered safety strategies reduce mishaps. I ride a big touring bike with a tail case and windscreen so large that my torso is completely hidden both front and back. I went with a bright white helmet to increase conspicuity. I don't operate under the assumption that it helps anyone see me though. I don't linger beside other vehicles or in blind spots. Inasmuch as possible I build a reactionary bubble around me and have an escape plan in place when my bubble collapses. I travel through all intersections on high alert and assume anyone in a position to left turn in front of me will.
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:12 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinnin View Post
When someone assigns a motivation to anyone else's actions the discussion often is not about the subject anymore. "You're not man enough to ride a 'real' bike." "You hate America." "You're scared so you wear those crash pads and ugly jacket."

I didn't hear your conversation but you probably shortened it to fit it into a post. It's possible that assigning you the ugliest motivation is an attempt to shame you into conforming to what the cool kids do. Happens on this forum with everything from the cool dual-sport to the most authentic experience.

People can wear hi-viz without being scared or believing in magic. But those two accusations can put you on the defensive. Once you start trying to defend yourself from the false motivation you've half lost the argument.
In hindsight it was a poor choice to end my opening question with "Or is it to low on the cool factor." I would hope it has nothing to do with that. The posts above by people who don't wear it is simply a matter of - They don't believe it works or they are exercising their free will and are choosing not to wear it. As simple as that. Guess it's just as bad saying "what it's not cool so you don't wear it." As it is saying "If you are that scared drive a car or why do BMW riders wear that dumb color." Not my intention to throw stones from my end of the spectrum. Most people don't wear it and wanted to hear what people thought. Ride safe, wear what you want in my book.
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Old 01-25-2014, 10:20 AM   #70
NoVa Rider
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I wear a hi-viz suit, but have also worn a black suit with hi-viz ballistics (motoport). IMHO, the best option for visibility is a hi-viz helmet, with SOLAS for night time visibility. Highest point on the bike, and the most visible to the cagers. . ..

Notice the yellow helmet in this shot?

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Old 01-25-2014, 10:53 AM   #71
Falconx84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVa Rider View Post
I wear a hi-viz suit, but have also worn a black suit with hi-viz ballistics (motoport). IMHO, the best option for visibility is a hi-viz helmet, with SOLAS for night time visibility. Highest point on the bike, and the most visible to the cagers. . ..

Notice the yellow helmet in this shot?

(Pic removed)
In all fairness, the white helmet of the other rider caught and held my attention first
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:21 AM   #72
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinnin View Post
When someone assigns a motivation to anyone else's actions the discussion often is not about the subject anymore. "You're not man enough to ride a 'real' bike." "You hate America." "You're scared so you wear those crash pads and ugly jacket."

I didn't hear your conversation but you probably shortened it to fit it into a post. It's possible that assigning you the ugliest motivation is an attempt to shame you into conforming to what the cool kids do. Happens on this forum with everything from the cool dual-sport to the most authentic experience.

People can wear hi-viz without being scared or believing in magic. But those two accusations can put you on the defensive. Once you start trying to defend yourself from the false motivation you've half lost the argument.
There's something to what he's saying,

Some riders let their lack of skill and/or confidence influence them to make poor decisions such as riders who ride with excessively bright high beams, or HIDs in reflector housings because it "may help" without thought for how it effects others.

Obviously it's highly unlikely high-viz will have any negative impact under most conditions, but when you see a rider covered head to toe in it, their bike covered in reflective tape, and running crazy bright lights, it does raise the question.
And its a question we should all ask, is what I'm doing to communicate with drivers who are paying attention, or am I doing it in the vain hope it "may help" an inattentive driver see me. The problem with "may help" is you don't know if it does or not.

It may be harsh, but IMO, if high-viz or any other visibility enhancement has a noticeable effect, its adressing a rider issue, not a gear issue.
The real question isn't if you believe in it or not, its the why and what. Why you're using it, and what you expect it to do.

A tool is only as good as the person using it.
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:22 AM   #73
WYO George
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I'm a big believer that high visibility gear is a great tool to assist in being seen. It is not a cure-all, nor will it "fix" drivers who fall into the "Four D's" (drunk, drugged, distracted or just plain dumb)

With that said, I still ride a Confederate Grey DR650 while wearing black pants and a black jacket. I do have a silver helmet and reflective stripes for night, but I can't bring myself to wear glowing yellow gear all the time.
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Old 01-25-2014, 11:27 AM   #74
No False Enthusiasm
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For three seasons, I'm a hi-viz Darien, white Qwest wearer...

In summer, I go with an Olympia hi-viz mesh suit with the white Qwest.

I generally stay out of cities, interstates, etc. as I prefer small towns and rural rides.

NFE

PS: Hell, yes I've been scared... every time I climbed up on a tank, every time I pre-flighted, every time I entered a burning building, every time I crank a moto. If not fully scared, then at least focused. The world is a dangerous place... but have fun.

No False Enthusiasm screwed with this post 01-25-2014 at 12:07 PM
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Old 01-25-2014, 01:01 PM   #75
KoolBreeze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla King View Post

anyone who thinks their personal safety is dependent on someone else seeing them and giving a shit has already blown it.
I don't think it's "DEPENDANT" but it's just another means for those that so desire to increase their odds... which it does.

can't imagine how anybody reasons or argues it doesn't increase the safety factor to some degree.

but like I said... I choose to live otherwise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayrod1318 View Post
I say bullshit on anyone that thinks it don't help.

Think about the camouflage effect of a a black or grey car, 12% more likely to be in an accident.

The latest craze is to be all murdered out and no flashy colors...

Hi viz works, but so does white, its ALL ABOUT CONTRAST.

My next helmet will be solid white.
yea... idk about this. I trust white is better than grey or black, but not as good as bright orange, yellow or neon colors. (that stand out from nature or aren't in natures "warning" hues. read: yellow/orange)

I know for an absolute fact you can and will spot a bright yellow vehicle from miles away on a long freeway stretchin comparison to a white one (say when you are going down a slight grade then the freeway goes up a slight grade on the opposite side of a valley. we have a bit of this in socal)


this is an absolute. so while I read those advocates of white stating it's about contrast... there's a whole lot of that out there and natures warning colors still stand out more.

that fact understood a white helmet is better than a grey or black one. (no way as good as all dressed out in hi-viz)

I would consider owning a white helmet with some dress up graphics of sort. thinking my next will be the C3 pro in North American graphics for instance.

it this makes me more visible.... then okie dokie. wouldn't be my main reason behind buying it.
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