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Old 02-04-2014, 12:32 AM   #211
JohnCW
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Being able to ride proficiently has no bearing on the type of bike you're riding.
But does the type of bike your riding have a bearing on your proficiency?
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:16 AM   #212
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But does the type of bike your riding have a bearing on your proficiency?
No.

Proficiency is skill, the bike is only the tool being employed.

A better tool can allow for a higher degree of tool-wielding by the proficient craftsman.

And, a poor craftsman will often blame his tools.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:20 AM   #213
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Just one of my favorite moto corner fail photos, gotta love the hand positioning:



Jazz hands to the end!
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:50 AM   #214
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But does the type of bike your riding have a bearing on your proficiency?
No.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:51 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
No.

Proficiency is skill, the bike is only the tool being employed.

A better tool can allow for a higher degree of tool-wielding by the proficient craftsman.

And, a poor craftsman will often blame his tools.
+1, perfectly said.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:26 PM   #216
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No.

Proficiency is skill, the bike is only the tool being employed.

A better tool can allow for a higher degree of tool-wielding by the proficient craftsman.

And, a poor craftsman will often blame his tools.
Would there be a difference in outcome trying to learning to ride a horse on a large race horse, or a smaller more placid one? Both just the "tools being employed"?

I ride occasionally with an over 40's club which gets a lot of returning riders as new members. 99% of them have bought one of two bikes to get back into riding, a big heavy BMW tourer, or a large HD.

It's my observation this choice of bike holds them back from developing appropriate skills. They find them a handful to manage, and so confidence is reduced. Without confidence their skills do not seem to progress. They don't seem to stick around long and probably the bike gets sold. They'd have been far better of buying a smaller more easily manageable bike to start with, on which they could gain confidence and skills.

It'd be much the same deal if someone asked me should they bike a 1+ liter Super Sport as their first bike.

So as a generalization, I believe the choice of bike can have a significant bearing on the confidence, development progress, and overall proficiency of the rider.

JohnCW screwed with this post 02-04-2014 at 01:13 PM
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:27 PM   #217
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I didn't read the whole thread, but have any of you who claim counter steering isn't really what turns the bike ever ridden (or tried to ride) a bike with frozen steering head bearings? you can lean all you want she aint turnin.
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Old 02-04-2014, 12:36 PM   #218
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I didn't read the whole thread, but have any of you who claim counter steering isn't really what turns the bike ever ridden (or tried to ride) a bike with frozen steering head bearings? you can lean all you want she aint turnin.
I think you should read the thread. Don't think there was a single post stating the above.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:06 PM   #219
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It's my observation this choice of bike holds them back from developing appropriate skills. They find them a handful to manage, and so confidence is reduced. Without confidence their skills do not seem to progress. They don't seem to stick around long and probably the bike gets sold. They'd have been far better of buying a smaller more easily manageable bike to start with, on which they could gain confidence and skills.
True of most American riders, learning to ride at any age. Few learn on small bikes and work their way up, few ever learn much at all.
Ever since the, "anything under a liter is a girl's bike" thing got started, almost no one masters anything.

Most end up paddling around on Harleys for a while, then parking them in the garage.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:23 PM   #220
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True of most American riders, learning to ride at any age. Few learn on small bikes and work their way up, few ever learn much at all.
Ever since the, "anything under a liter is a girl's bike" thing got started, almost no one masters anything.

Most end up paddling around on Harleys for a while, then parking them in the garage.
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:47 PM   #221
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True of most American riders, learning to ride at any age. Few learn on small bikes and work their way up, few ever learn much at all.
Ever since the, "anything under a liter is a girl's bike" thing got started, almost no one masters anything.

Most end up paddling around on Harleys for a while, then parking them in the garage.
This right here. I am a big fan of the European style tiered licensing just because of that reason.

Case in point. At my last job, this dude told me he was buying his first bike. "Cool" I said, "What are you thinking about?"

"Trying to figure out what Harley I want."

"Does it have to be a Harley?"

"I won't buy anything else. Ever."

"Okay, whatever, get an 883 to start."

"Can't. That's a girl's bike."

"Where the hell did you learn that?"

Blank stare.

"Tell you what, you tell whoever said it was a girl's bike that I'll get on one and race him up Palomar Mountain, just so I can tell his friends he got beat by a girl's bike."

"Well, I need a big twin."

"No, you don't. It's too big and bulky to learn on."

"No it isn't. I'm getting one, probably a Soft Tail."

"Good luck. Buy more life insurance."

Where did this crap come from?
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:59 PM   #222
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It'd be much the same deal if someone asked me should they bike a 1+ liter Super Sport as their first bike.
So should I buy a litre sport bike for my first bike ??

Marc
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:09 PM   #223
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True of most _______ riders, learning to ride at any age. Few learn on small bikes and work their way up, few ever learn much at all.

fixed
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:19 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by hippiebrian View Post

"Well, I need a big twin."

"No, you don't. It's too big and bulky to learn on."



Where did this crap come from?

Where does this crap come from indeed.

There is nothing wrong with an adult starting out on a big twin (no matter what brand) Cruiser. They are easy to ride. In some ways easier than the smaller bikes. (for people that are just learning clutch discipline)

The key is simply to admit they do indeed NEED TO LEARN. So many never bother.
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Old 02-04-2014, 05:42 PM   #225
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Would there be a difference in outcome trying to learning to ride a horse on a large race horse, or a smaller more placid one? Both just the "tools being employed"?
The answer to that question will change with each rider.

I learned on a bicycle.

Dakez said it pretty well. It is more about where the rider's head is than it is about which bike they choose to learn on.
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