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Old 02-05-2014, 09:32 AM   #91
NJ-Brett
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In 40 years of riding, street and dirt, cross country trips, etc, I have been stranded ONCE.

That was a few years ago on a 1969 Triumph Daytona.
The aftermarket tappet adjusters I used (mushroom head) started chipping their edges off, which got into the oil pump and trashed it.
Oil pumped into the motor, but not out.
That after 45,000 miles of hard riding it.

True, it always needed work, but I used the bike hard.

I almost did not make it home a few times, an old IT175 sucked in a reed valve on the trail. I used a soda can to replace the missing assembly and rode home on the other reed.

In the 70's, I burnt a hole through the top of the right side piston on another Daytona, I sort of did it because I got fed up with it slowing down at full throttle.
I made it home on the left cylinder.

Most bikes can be very reliable if you look after them.
Most breakdowns are the owners fault in my book, cables, carbs, chains, wires and connections are things that need looking after, batteries should be replaced before they get old.

Modern bikes can have fuel pumps, which should be replaced at some point.
Every component on a bike has some expected lifetime, you just need to know about what it is and replace it beforehand, or carry a spare.

Points, fuel pumps, carb parts, cdi units, throttle position sensors, you think about what could kill your bike and plan for it.

A new bike will have nothing to worry about in most cases, except some Euro brands with a lot of electronics, an old bike will have almost every part suspect.

There is no reason an old bike can not be as or more reliable then it was when new, if you go through it.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:13 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
This is only true ceteris paribus. In other words, the rule of thumb only applies if you are adding more stuff that has a similar failure rate to the original stuff.
I agree with everything you wrote.

But it may be too fine a point for this discussion.

If JVB rates a carb gasket leak the same as an FI fuel hose joint leak then we aren't yet working with common understanding.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:23 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
I want my refrigerator to be reliable, I want my furnace to be reliable, I want my motorcycles to be fun.
I agree, I don't consider pushing a dead motorcycle fun
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:23 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
I agree, I don't consider pushing a dead motorcycle fun
That's funny because you've got TWO bikes that I've had to push before.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:18 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Gripsteruser View Post
I agree with everything you wrote.

But it may be too fine a point for this discussion.

If JVB rates a carb gasket leak the same as an FI fuel hose joint leak then we aren't yet working with common understanding.
That was why I do it. Your idea of an issue and mine may not be the same, so ANY issue must be considered an issue. A leak may or may not strand you, but it is still an issue.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:59 PM   #96
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Just getting back on after a few days.....have a few things to add

You can have a 125k mile 05 r1200gs and if you did not ride it hard and put it away wet it should be reliable. However if you ride the way I do where dust and dirt gets into everything and keeping it spotless is impossible then reliability due to simplicity comes into effect. I had a early oilhead once and I spent more time fiddling with the motronic and plugging and unplugging the O2 than I would care to admit. Once a wire shorted and I had a harness fire in the 10 miles of wiring that was it...I went back to simple.

I think it comes down to if you ride you bike as designed the reliability is revealed. If you put 100k+ highway miles on your GS and say it's reliable you have no argument as the GS was designed as a dual sport.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:10 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Skyshadow View Post
Just getting back on after a few days.....have a few things to add

You can have a 125k mile 05 r1200gs and if you did not ride it hard and put it away wet it should be reliable. However if you ride the way I do where dust and dirt gets into everything and keeping it spotless is impossible then reliability due to simplicity comes into effect. I had a early oilhead once and I spent more time fiddling with the motronic and plugging and unplugging the O2 than I would care to admit. Once a wire shorted and I had a harness fire in the 10 miles of wiring that was it...I went back to simple.

I think it comes down to if you ride you bike as designed the reliability is revealed. If you put 100k+ highway miles on your GS and say it's reliable you have no argument as the GS was designed as a dual sport.
Straying from the other points on issues, this is my 125K mile GS:





and my old GS with 55K in 2.5 years when I sold it:



Maintenance and care are far more important than how you ride and where you park!
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:18 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Maintenance and care are far more important than how you ride and where you park!
Maintenance and care are important. But how you ride makes a huge difference on how things hold up. Believe me I've more then proven that. There's a reason folks get 15K miles out of a Pilot Road when I only get 2500. Same reason people get 150K plus miles out of a Vstrom with no issues, when I'm replacing the motor at 43K.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:05 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Some of us do use our bikes as our full time all weather transportation, some of us do need to be concerned with the expense of service and repairs, some of us keep our bikes many years.

For some of us, user maintainability trumps technical superiority.
I attended a Open Wrench Night at a private bike building garage, riding in on my 50s vintage scoot. There was a Britbike on the repair stand, something old with an Amal carb. I asked about the metal hoses on the outside of the cylinder. External oil lines. I mentioned my bike didn't have an oil pump. That piqued the host's interest, he is interested in how different schools of thought design motorcycles. I showed him how the oil vapor was delivered to the valve levers by removing the oil cap and feeling the air pumping out. There are little points molded into the inside of the cylinder head cover that drip the condensed lubricant onto the bushings. The oil is distributed by the crankshaft that splashes oil around. This may sound primitive, but it is part of an old formula for reliability. No oil pump, no tiny passageways, no moving parts except the already moving crankshaft. The engine doesn't turn very fast, and ignition points last many years, and are simple to set. This simplicity and formactive design makes diagnosis of a problem so elementary that even I can do it. The valves have a single angle, the last time I burned a valve I lapped in a new one, no machining. The pushrods need no attention. The final drive is an enclosed engine component. The bike was designed by aircraft engineers to be reliable, and they succeeded.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:32 AM   #100
Skyshadow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Maintenance and care are important. But how you ride makes a huge difference on how things hold up. Believe me I've more then proven that. There's a reason folks get 15K miles out of a Pilot Road when I only get 2500. Same reason people get 150K plus miles out of a Vstrom with no issues, when I'm replacing the motor at 43K.
+1 maintenance is important...but application separates the reliable from the unreliable. For the record..I HATED my oilhead due to the weight and complexity. I LOVE my g/s due to the weight and simplicity
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:02 AM   #101
buls4evr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
In 40 years of riding, street and dirt, cross country trips, etc, I have been stranded ONCE.

That was a few years ago on a 1969 Triumph Daytona.
The aftermarket tappet adjusters I used (mushroom head) started chipping their edges off, which got into the oil pump and trashed it.
Oil pumped into the motor, but not out.
That after 45,000 miles of hard riding it.

True, it always needed work, but I used the bike hard.

I almost did not make it home a few times, an old IT175 sucked in a reed valve on the trail. I used a soda can to replace the missing assembly and rode home on the other reed.

In the 70's, I burnt a hole through the top of the right side piston on another Daytona, I sort of did it because I got fed up with it slowing down at full throttle.
I made it home on the left cylinder.

Most bikes can be very reliable if you look after them.
Most breakdowns are the owners fault in my book, cables, carbs, chains, wires and connections are things that need looking after, batteries should be replaced before they get old.

Modern bikes can have fuel pumps, which should be replaced at some point.
Every component on a bike has some expected lifetime, you just need to know about what it is and replace it beforehand, or carry a spare.

Points, fuel pumps, carb parts, cdi units, throttle position sensors, you think about what could kill your bike and plan for it.

A new bike will have nothing to worry about in most cases, except some Euro brands with a lot of electronics, an old bike will have almost every part suspect.

There is no reason an old bike can not be as or more reliable then it was when new, if you go through it.
I can tell you that my new "Euro Brand" has the same Japanese Nippon Denso electronics as Japanese bikes do and has a Keihin FI system.....So that does not hold water that you need to "worry" about it. I totally agree with you though when you talk about maintenance on a schedule. They all need that no matter who makes them or how old they are.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:14 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
I attended a Open Wrench Night at a private bike building garage, riding in on my 50s vintage scoot. There was a Britbike on the repair stand, something old with an Amal carb. I asked about the metal hoses on the outside of the cylinder. External oil lines. I mentioned my bike didn't have an oil pump. That piqued the host's interest, he is interested in how different schools of thought design motorcycles. I showed him how the oil vapor was delivered to the valve levers by removing the oil cap and feeling the air pumping out. There are little points molded into the inside of the cylinder head cover that drip the condensed lubricant onto the bushings. The oil is distributed by the crankshaft that splashes oil around. This may sound primitive, but it is part of an old formula for reliability. No oil pump, no tiny passageways, no moving parts except the already moving crankshaft. The engine doesn't turn very fast, and ignition points last many years, and are simple to set. This simplicity and formactive design makes diagnosis of a problem so elementary that even I can do it. The valves have a single angle, the last time I burned a valve I lapped in a new one, no machining. The pushrods need no attention. The final drive is an enclosed engine component. The bike was designed by aircraft engineers to be reliable, and they succeeded.
A vast wealth of reliability information flowed from the battlefields of World War II. Engine design changed drastically as a never before seen sample of machinery failed and was immediately researched, improved, and fielded. Nothing like fighting for one's way of life to spur innovation. Aircraft engines went two directions at this time. Slow turning, super-reliable radials like the R-2800 Double Wasp added power by stacking on more cylinders.



Higher revving, less-reliable but higher performing inline V's like the Merlin went for higher and higher compression, more valves, hemi compbustion chambers, and superchargers.



Sounds like your bike came from the radial school of thought. My only real gripe with radials is that they leak oil and there's nothing you can do about it except carry a pan around with you.

MotorcycleWriter screwed with this post 02-06-2014 at 07:19 AM
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:37 AM   #103
NJ-Brett
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That is a good thing.
The Japanese seem to do electronics very well, almost all the time.
The Germans, not so much.

I had no end of problems with the electronics on a German car, so much so I traded it in after 2 years for a loss.
I replaced it with a Japanese car (Acura TL) and after 9 years, I have yet to have any problem at all with the car.

I had much better luck with old Lucas stuff then a modern German car!



Quote:
Originally Posted by buls4evr View Post
I can tell you that my new "Euro Brand" has the same Japanese Nippon Denso electronics as Japanese bikes do and has a Keihin FI system.....So that does not hold water that you need to "worry" about it. I totally agree with you though when you talk about maintenance on a schedule. They all need that no matter who makes them or how old they are.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:10 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
Here, I'll help you out:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/most
Thank you,
Let me return the favor.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/some
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:54 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by MotorcycleWriter View Post
A vast wealth of reliability information flowed from the battlefields of World War II. Engine design changed drastically as a never before seen sample of machinery failed and was immediately researched, improved, and fielded. Nothing like fighting for one's way of life to spur innovation. Aircraft engines went two directions at this time. Slow turning, super-reliable radials like the R-2800 Double Wasp added power by stacking on more cylinders.



Higher revving, less-reliable but higher performing inline V's like the Merlin went for higher and higher compression, more valves, hemi compbustion chambers, and superchargers.



Sounds like your bike came from the radial school of thought. My only real gripe with radials is that they leak oil and there's nothing you can do about it except carry a pan around with you.
This is the company:
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