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Old 02-04-2014, 08:25 PM   #4246
windmill
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Originally Posted by Telemarktumalo View Post
Good point Ridge. An example of where cars impede cyclists and should move aside.... is in a downtown, high volume traffic, bumper to bumper situation. Cars are sitting still or barely moving. In a quid pro quo comparison, the cars should move as far to the right as possible and allow the narrow, faster moving bicycles to pass unimpeded by the 3500 lb steel behemoths. Because after all, the law of the land says that slower moving vehicles should move as far to the right as practical, to allow, me, the faster moving cyclist, to pass. Seems fair.
Yes, I know you're being sardonic, but still I agree with you, except maybe the cars should keep left as the right is the default "lane" for bicycles?? The point being, when cyclists have the advantage, its the motorists duty to keep clear of their progress.

I would also say that when bicycles constitute an equal or majority portion of the traffic, then they define what is the normal flow. There are some roads in Seattle that are posted as bicycles having right of way.

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Old 02-05-2014, 07:51 AM   #4247
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
If the picture in the link shows the typical layout of that road, its obviously a lightly used, low speed road that cars and bikes should be able to share without undue conflict unless one or both intentionally choose to make it an issue.

Was the cyclist unjustly ticketed simply for being on the road, or is there more to it than is being told in the story?
The road in question looks a lot like the roads I ride with one exception: I don't get center lines. In VA if the road's too narrow, they don't paint em.

...and with few exceptions ALL the roads I ride are 45mph roads. Some are twisty enough that you can't do 45mph. Some are open enough that 55mph or higher is possible.

AFA the question about 'whether there's more to the story?' I'm gonna bet not. There's a bunch of cops out there that don't like bicyclists same as there's a bunch of ADV riders that don't like cyclists.

Oh and a link: what supercross pros are riding. Next time you're hassling a cyclist, you COULD just be effing with Ryan Villapoto or Bubba Stewart, or any of the other top supercross pros.

M
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:14 AM   #4248
windmill
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
The road in question looks a lot like the roads I ride with one exception: I don't get center lines. In VA if the road's too narrow, they don't paint em.

...and with few exceptions ALL the roads I ride are 45mph roads. Some are twisty enough that you can't do 45mph. Some are open enough that 55mph or higher is possible.

AFA the question about 'whether there's more to the story?' I'm gonna bet not. There's a bunch of cops out there that don't like bicyclists same as there's a bunch of ADV riders that don't like cyclists.

Oh and a link: what supercross pros are riding. Next time you're hassling a cyclist, you COULD just be effing with Ryan Villapoto or Bubba Stewart, or any of the other top supercross pros.

M
I was just wondering what the rest of the story is, considering how vague it is, and its source.

I hope that "you" wasn't directed at me, as a professional driver, an incident with a cyclist would be the end of my career, and looking at the growing pile of parts for the bicycle I'm building because I've decided to get back into cycling, I have a vested interest in not hassling cyclists or being hassled as a cyclist.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:40 AM   #4249
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
I was just wondering what the rest of the story is, considering how vague it is, and its source.

I hope that "you" wasn't directed at me, as a professional driver, an incident with a cyclist would be the end of my career, and looking at the growing pile of parts for the bicycle I'm building because I've decided to get back into cycling, I have a vested interest in not hassling cyclists or being hassled as a cyclist.
Sorry to be a little vague. 'You' as in the people in this thread that are anti-cyclist.

M
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:01 AM   #4250
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Simply apply the same standard you would desire from someone else .

The rules and laws of the road are intended to be observed in their entirety by all users for our mutual benefit, not to be picked and chosen to suit our desires.

It's pointless to play "what if", every situation is unique, hold your line when you must, let others by when you can.

Using a public road is about "we" not "me".
Well said.

Beware the "me monster" (posted for humor only),

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Old 02-05-2014, 10:49 AM   #4251
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Here's one for you. It's tourist season here in the islands, and the roads are crawling with professional bicyclists left over from some triathlon or other. I was coming down a long stretch towards a z bend and there was a bicyclist in front of me in the middle of the lane. There were cars coming up the hill as we entered the first turn, so I gave him a little beep of my horn to let him know I was there. He turned around to look at me and pulled towards the shoulder, so I leaned in to pass him on the apex in the next left hand turn. At the last moment he swerved into the apex in front of me and I had to brake to avoid hitting him. Missed him by about a foot as it was. I shouted MORON! and left him in the dust...
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:15 AM   #4252
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Originally Posted by Big Bamboo View Post
Here's one for you. It's tourist season here in the islands, and the roads are crawling with professional bicyclists left over from some triathlon or other. I was coming down a long stretch towards a z bend and there was a bicyclist in front of me in the middle of the lane. There were cars coming up the hill as we entered the first turn, so I gave him a little beep of my horn to let him know I was there. He turned around to look at me and pulled towards the shoulder, so I leaned in to pass him on the apex in the next left hand turn. At the last moment he swerved into the apex in front of me and I had to brake to avoid hitting him. Missed him by about a foot as it was. I shouted MORON! and left him in the dust...
If he moved to the shoulder in a left-hander, is it possible he was just setting up for the turn... same as you would? I often set-up for turns by adjusting my line, weighting pedals, looking through the turn... etc. He might have acknowledged your presence but figured (as I probably would) that an attempt to pass would not be made in a curve. Too sketchy and not enough room should the situation go pear-shaped.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:27 PM   #4253
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Originally Posted by Ridge View Post
If he moved to the shoulder in a left-hander, is it possible he was just setting up for the turn... same as you would? I often set-up for turns by adjusting my line, weighting pedals, looking through the turn... etc. He might have acknowledged your presence but figured (as I probably would) that an attempt to pass would not be made in a curve. Too sketchy and not enough room should the situation go pear-shaped.
I assumed because he moved right that he was getting out of the way. So, as a bicyclist, do you swerve in front of overtaking traffic because you assume they know about your technique? Good luck with that...
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:55 PM   #4254
Ridge
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Originally Posted by Big Bamboo View Post
I assumed because he moved right that he was getting out of the way. So, as a bicyclist, do you swerve in front of overtaking traffic because you assume they know about your technique? Good luck with that...
I try and assume nothing and will change my riding style to suit the conditions. Why would you assume to make a safe pass at the apex of a curve? While I'm comfortable enough to make such a maneuver on a closed track... in real-world traffic conditions it's often sketchy as hell... whether you know the road or not. Add the complication of another human being on a very light machine that can change lines with a sudden gust of wind and your pass becomes much riskier. I'm not saying you were in the wrong, since I was not there, but it seems you could have exercised just a bit of patience for a safer and cleaner pass from your description.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:49 PM   #4255
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Originally Posted by Big Bamboo View Post
Here's one for you. It's tourist season here in the islands, and the roads are crawling with professional bicyclists left over from some triathlon or other. I was coming down a long stretch towards a z bend and there was a bicyclist in front of me in the middle of the lane. There were cars coming up the hill as we entered the first turn, so I gave him a little beep of my horn to let him know I was there. He turned around to look at me and pulled towards the shoulder, so I leaned in to pass him on the apex in the next left hand turn. At the last moment he swerved into the apex in front of me and I had to brake to avoid hitting him. Missed him by about a foot as it was. I shouted MORON! and left him in the dust...
"Professional bicyclists" should have been a clue.

Whenever I see a cyclist in full Lance Drugstrong regalia, a sport bike with rider in full "leathers" or a tricked out sports car, I give them a wider margin as that tends to be an indication of a type A driver/rider who can be aggressive and unpredictable.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:54 PM   #4256
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"Professional bicyclists" should have been a clue.

Whenever I see a cyclist in full Lance Drugstrong regalia, a sport bike with rider in full "leathers" or a tricked out sports car, I give them a wider margin as that tends to be an indication of a type A driver/rider who can be aggressive and unpredictable.
That seems to be a biased assumption with no foundation of truth. Why not simply give them a wider margin because they are another human being going about their daily business as you are? The less we invoke fallacies and judge others from biased perspectives; the more likely we are to all get along mo' betta'.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:16 PM   #4257
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That seems to be a biased assumption with no foundation of truth. Why not simply give them a wider margin because they are another human being going about their daily business as you are? The less we invoke fallacies and judge others from biased perspectives; the more likely we are to all get along mo' betta'.
Spending 8 to 10 hours a day on the road for the past 20 years I have noticed patterns of behaviour associated with almost all types of vehicles, obviously not universal or guaranteed, but enough to make it helpful in predicting possible actions of others.
Its kinda like when you see children playing near a road, you slow down and keep an eye on them knowing one may dart out in the road. You're not passing judgment on them, you're simply adding an extra margin for error if it arises.

I'm always careful and respectful, but sometimes extra care is prudent, better safe then sorry.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:05 PM   #4258
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
I'm always careful and respectful, but sometimes extra care is prudent, better safe then sorry.
I'll agree with this, but disagree with your assessment of people in jerseys, etc. to a point.

Those of us that spend a fairly large amount of time on the roads tend to be very predictable. ...but... there's lots of folks that don't ride as much who DO swerve around and generally ride fairly haphazardly.

Telling one type of rider from another from 1/4mi back closing at 3x our speed may be somewhat difficult unless you know what you're looking for. *I* can spot em from a ways back because I'm looking for evidence of skilled riding. YMMV

M
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:16 PM   #4259
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I'll agree with this, but disagree with your assessment of people in jerseys, etc. to a point.
I'm willing to bet you do it too.

Lifted diesel pickup, lowered Civic with fart can, blue hair in a big old Lincoln, Trophy wife in an Escalade, young guy in a white work truck, minivan full of kids, overloaded landscaper truck.

I'm sure there are types of vehicles and drivers that put you on high alert too.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:21 PM   #4260
Ridge
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I'm willing to bet you do it too.

Lifted diesel pickup, lowered Civic with fart can, blue hair in a big old Lincoln, Trophy wife in an Escalade, young guy in a white work truck, minivan full of kids, overloaded landscaper truck.

I'm sure there are types of vehicles and drivers that put you on high alert too.
I'll agree they put us on high alert but to categorize them in a demeaning way serves zero positive purpose. To label roadies as "Lance Drugstrong" justifiably rubs us the wrong way. I think it and other stereotyped labeling unnecessary and needs to be diminished instantly. Don't read this as me getting on a soap box… I simply think it does not add to any positive outcome on any level.
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