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Old 02-05-2014, 09:41 AM   #226
Onederer
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(I just went back a page and seen someone else made the Conway connection)
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Onederer screwed with this post 02-06-2014 at 09:21 AM
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:19 PM   #227
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I hate absolutes. I've been off the low side lots of times but they were pretty much my own fault. One time though, not so. In 1984 on my 82 Suzuki Katana (yeah the space ship) I came into a 25mph hairpin, in the inside lane. I don't remember my speed but I ride at a pretty good clip. I usually don't get my knee pucks on the ground on the street but they're usually close. I like to leave myself some cushion. Just after I enter the corner I see a motorhome coming the other way cutting the corner in my lane! The only course of action was to try and turn inside of him so I cranked it over. Soon I had everything on the ground, knee, footpegs, engine cases... and I wasn't making it inside of him. When the engine started hitting, it started to lever the tires off the pavement and I realized it was hopeless and I bailed off the inside. The bike pivoted on the engine and the motorhome t-boned it square on. I rolled to the inside of the motorhome and bounced off the rear duals. Total injuries amounted to one bruise on my leg from the tires, one scuffed set of leathers and one squashed Katana. I taught the motorhome guy a serious lesson about driving in the wrong lane, I dented his bumper real good!
Normally, I don't see the need for laying it down but in this case I don't really think I had an alternative other than being a hood ornament myself.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:13 AM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey View Post
I hate absolutes. I've been off the low side lots of times but they were pretty much my own fault. One time though, not so. In 1984 on my 82 Suzuki Katana (yeah the space ship) I came into a 25mph hairpin, in the inside lane. I don't remember my speed but I ride at a pretty good clip. I usually don't get my knee pucks on the ground on the street but they're usually close. I like to leave myself some cushion. Just after I enter the corner I see a motorhome coming the other way cutting the corner in my lane! The only course of action was to try and turn inside of him so I cranked it over. Soon I had everything on the ground, knee, footpegs, engine cases... and I wasn't making it inside of him. When the engine started hitting, it started to lever the tires off the pavement and I realized it was hopeless and I bailed off the inside. The bike pivoted on the engine and the motorhome t-boned it square on. I rolled to the inside of the motorhome and bounced off the rear duals. Total injuries amounted to one bruise on my leg from the tires, one scuffed set of leathers and one squashed Katana. I taught the motorhome guy a serious lesson about driving in the wrong lane, I dented his bumper real good!
Normally, I don't see the need for laying it down but in this case I don't really think I had an alternative other than being a hood ornament myself.
Sounds like the Mother of all lay downs.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:23 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Homey View Post
I hate absolutes.........

.............Normally, I don't see the need for laying it down but in this case I don't really think I had an alternative other than being a hood ornament myself.
What this thread is about: You crashed, but meant to do that.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:54 AM   #230
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:53 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey View Post
I hate absolutes. I've been off the low side lots of times but they were pretty much my own fault. One time though, not so. In 1984 on my 82 Suzuki Katana (yeah the space ship) I came into a 25mph hairpin, in the inside lane. I don't remember my speed but I ride at a pretty good clip. I usually don't get my knee pucks on the ground on the street but they're usually close. I like to leave myself some cushion. Just after I enter the corner I see a motorhome coming the other way cutting the corner in my lane! The only course of action was to try and turn inside of him so I cranked it over. Soon I had everything on the ground, knee, footpegs, engine cases... and I wasn't making it inside of him. When the engine started hitting, it started to lever the tires off the pavement and I realized it was hopeless and I bailed off the inside. The bike pivoted on the engine and the motorhome t-boned it square on. I rolled to the inside of the motorhome and bounced off the rear duals. Total injuries amounted to one bruise on my leg from the tires, one scuffed set of leathers and one squashed Katana. I taught the motorhome guy a serious lesson about driving in the wrong lane, I dented his bumper real good!
Normally, I don't see the need for laying it down but in this case I don't really think I had an alternative other than being a hood ornament myself.
That was not laying it down in the "I had to lay 'er down" sense. You lowsided unintentionally while actively trying to avoid a collision. By the time the engine case was on the ground you had already lowsided so bailing out was a good idea.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:17 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
That was not laying it down in the "I had to lay 'er down" sense. You lowsided unintentionally while actively trying to avoid a collision. By the time the engine case was on the ground you had already lowsided so bailing out was a good idea.
You kind of lost me there. I was under the impression that "laying 'er down" and purposely lowsiding where pretty much the same thing. You're going to have to enlighten me a little.
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Old 02-07-2014, 12:40 AM   #233
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He kept turning until the bike wouldn't turn no more. I thought layin' her down was basically a straight line event.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:36 AM   #234
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You kind of lost me there. I was under the impression that "laying 'er down" and purposely lowsiding where pretty much the same thing. You're going to have to enlighten me a little.
Technically perhaps. The use of the term "laying 'er down" usually means something else, however.

When somone says they "Had to lay 'er down", you can be almost certain it was a crash, not an intentional act, and probably not preceeded by any maximum swerving.
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:23 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
Technically perhaps. The use of the term "laying 'er down" usually means something else, however.

When somone says they "Had to lay 'er down", you can be almost certain it was a crash, not an intentional act, and probably not preceeded by any maximum swerving.

Soooo....if I locked up the back brake to initiate the action, it would have been "laying 'er down" maybe?
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:23 AM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homey View Post
Soooo....if I locked up the back brake to initiate the action, it would have been "laying 'er down" maybe?
I would break it down this way...if your thought process was "oh crap, I better crash this bike before I crash", you fall into the 'I had to lay 'er down' group. If your though process was, "oh crap, I need to make this thing (insert evasive move here) or I will crash" and the bike went down as a result of the evasive move, you are in the 'did all I could and laid 'er down as a result' group.

Or to simplify, it's the difference between laying down as your evasive move and laying it down as a result of another evasive move. The former being an intent, the latter being a result of a very different intent.
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:30 AM   #237
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Suddenly I am hit by a memory of the coaster brake balloon tire bicycles of my boyhood. We only had a rear brake, operated by moving the pedal backwards. A quick stop meant locking up the rear wheel and skidding. We ended up layin' 'er down many times. What we learn young can make a deep and lasting impression.
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Old 02-07-2014, 09:49 AM   #238
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When the engine started hitting, it started to lever the tires off the pavement and I realized it was hopeless and I bailed off the inside. The bike pivoted on the engine and the motorhome t-boned it square on.
In my book, that falls into the "doing everything I could to avoid a crash but it didn't work out that way" category. Not an intentional "oh crap, a problem. Where's that back brake... STOMP!"


My sister is a new rider (about 8 months) on a Ninja 500. Recently she asking me about the skills required to "lay it down". Seems a new friend (a Harley riding acquaintance) had mentioned to her that she needed to learn how to do that kind of thing. (My dad explained this to me when I was a new, very young rider as well)

Later she also added that her friend was giving her that advice from a hospital bed. He had been on or near a freeway exit ramp and noticed a car headed for the same ramp at a much higher speed, and closing from the rear. (I don't know how he realized all this while it was happening behind him- and the story details seem to change a little with each telling). So anyway, the guy lays it down to avoid the car coming from behind him, slides into the concrete retaining wall, mangles his bike, and is hospitalized with several broken (large) bones.

I asked her about the car, and she said since it wasn't actually involved in the accident at any point, it drove on by and kept on going. That was when I pointed out to my sister that A) the guy had purposely crashed his bike in order to avoid what "might" become a crash, and B) that he created his very own single-vehicle accident, all on his own, complete with injuries and destruction to his bike.

She was amazed as I explained to her that the idea is to AVOID going down, not to purposely initiate a crash as a "safety" feature. She was sure that this mature, seemingly intelligent friend knew something that I didn't, but she's smart, and I could see the light bulb turning on in her head as she began to comprehend the logic of what I was explaining to her. I went on to explain the many different options that an upright motorcycle has- braking, turning, accelerating, pulling over and stopping altogether, and how few options a sliding bike and rider have.

I have been in 2 or 3 situations where I absolutely KNEW I was going to crash- no two ways about it, but still somehow managed to ride it out, work around an imminent crash, and avoid it by the grace of God or tremendous amounts of good luck- your choice, YMMV.
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FTL900 screwed with this post 02-07-2014 at 09:59 AM
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Old 02-08-2014, 06:39 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by FTL900 View Post
In my book, that falls into the "doing everything I could to avoid a crash but it didn't work out that way" category. Not an intentional "oh crap, a problem. Where's that back brake... STOMP!"


My sister is a new rider (about 8 months) on a Ninja 500. Recently she asking me about the skills required to "lay it down". Seems a new friend (a Harley riding acquaintance) had mentioned to her that she needed to learn how to do that kind of thing. (My dad explained this to me when I was a new, very young rider as well)

Later she also added that her friend was giving her that advice from a hospital bed. He had been on or near a freeway exit ramp and noticed a car headed for the same ramp at a much higher speed, and closing from the rear. (I don't know how he realized all this while it was happening behind him- and the story details seem to change a little with each telling). So anyway, the guy lays it down to avoid the car coming from behind him, slides into the concrete retaining wall, mangles his bike, and is hospitalized with several broken (large) bones.

I asked her about the car, and she said since it wasn't actually involved in the accident at any point, it drove on by and kept on going. That was when I pointed out to my sister that A) the guy had purposely crashed his bike in order to avoid what "might" become a crash, and B) that he created his very own single-vehicle accident, all on his own, complete with injuries and destruction to his bike.

She was amazed as I explained to her that the idea is to AVOID going down, not to purposely initiate a crash as a "safety" feature. She was sure that this mature, seemingly intelligent friend knew something that I didn't, but she's smart, and I could see the light bulb turning on in her head as she began to comprehend the logic of what I was explaining to her. I went on to explain the many different options that an upright motorcycle has- braking, turning, accelerating, pulling over and stopping altogether, and how few options a sliding bike and rider have.

I have been in 2 or 3 situations where I absolutely KNEW I was going to crash- no two ways about it, but still somehow managed to ride it out, work around an imminent crash, and avoid it by the grace of God or tremendous amounts of good luck- your choice, YMMV.
I have had several good laughs at myself during this thread. When I was a young man I had a few incidents of cars pulling out right in front of me(green 305 Dream) and I couldn't stop in time. I am sure whenever I told the stories I said I had to lay 'er down. It went down on the left side both times. I thought I was demonstrating decisiveness and courage. The brakes on that bike were really lame. Speed was 35mph. I was a mile and a half into a 3,200 mile trip to AZ the last time I went down.I kept going of course.
In 1985 my wife was studying for her motorcycle test and asked me about something in the VT DMV manual: countersteering. Hmm. A real head scratcher. Then it came up in a motorcycle magazine I had subscribed to and I could explain it to her, and I listened too. In a short time I noticed that my scooter (by then I had my old German scooter in my avatar) felt different to operate, I seemed to be living in the handlebars, steering with my shoulders instead of my ass.
Around 1988, I was on my way to Burlington riding VT US Route 2 north toward Jonesville , a well known curve that comes right before the famous Harbor Vintage Motorcycle shop, at 55 mph in a suddenly 40 mph zone. I liked taking this corner fast. Today however there was a long haired guy in a black Saab 99 on the side road on the right who seemed to be watching me intently. He pulled out suddenly, when I was too close. I knew I was going to hit him, but I aimed for the back of his car. I remember the rear tire of my scooter was badly worn and I was waiting for a new one. I know the scooter swerved right, it must have then swerved left next, because I didn't lay 'er down! I ended up on the right shoulder,Pointed north, on two wheels, upright, breathing hard, amazed at what had occurred. I had avoided a collision with a car on a 1960 motor scooter that I would have wiped out on with my motorcycle years earlier! I just sat there for a few seconds before the vintage bike place wondering what I had done right.
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Old 02-08-2014, 03:18 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FTL900 View Post

She was amazed as I explained to her that the idea is to AVOID going down, not to purposely initiate a crash as a "safety" feature. She was sure that this mature, seemingly intelligent friend knew something that I didn't, but she's smart, and I could see the light bulb turning on in her head as she began to comprehend the logic of what I was explaining to her. I went on to explain the many different options that an upright motorcycle has- braking, turning, accelerating, pulling over and stopping altogether, and how few options a sliding bike and rider have.
I'm glad the light came on for her. She's at enough risk as it is being a new rider without bad advice too.
Your sis is nice lady to visit a broken idiot in a hospital.
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