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Old 03-10-2014, 09:36 AM   #1
lookaught OP
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Any way to fix spinning subframe threaded inserts? For pannier mounts & top plate

A previous owner of my bike had the grand idea of using red loctite on everything, and although I did my best to use heat (kinda chickened out a bit with the torch, particularly with these bolts so close to the gas tank) and managed to get most bolts out without stripping or breaking anything, a few of the mounting holes which use pressed in threaded inserts are now spinning freely.

Specifically, one of the rear mounts for the top plate, and one side of the underside mounts used by certain pannier systems. I think I can reach the top plate insert from the side after removing the tail lamp plastic, and can probably JB weld the insert so i stops spinning. The two underneath though, there's no access to the backside of the inserts. Any idea how to reseat these? Or drill out and replace? I think if I drill them they will end up falling down the subframe tube and might rattle around forever

Thoughts? Has anyone replaced these with some type of rivet nut?

Top plate, its the top right bolt hole that's spinning:


And these lovely bastards. It was no fun grinding off the bolt heads and getting glowing hot metal right next to the fuel tank. Still haven't taken the time to get the studs out yet.
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lookaught screwed with this post 03-10-2014 at 09:46 AM
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:45 AM   #2
angusbeef83
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Interesting timing on this post, as I was installing a TT luggage rack on my 800 this weekend, and one of the TT supplied bolts cross threaded in the right rear mounting hole. My attempts to loosen the bolt caused the exact same thing to happen...and now the bolt and mounting point spin freely. I attempted to gain access to the frame, but the rear, top plastic cover cannot be removed while the bolt is in place. I was able to cut the top of the bolt and mount the rack (relying on the other three bolts to provide stability, which they do), but one day I know I'll want to retrieve the headless bolt and fix the mount.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:33 PM   #3
lookaught OP
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well, I suck at the searching.

Problem and solution:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ghlight=rivnut
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:36 PM   #4
73datsun
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I've never cross threaded so many damn bolts, then I did working on my F700. Horrible. Same issues with the pannier set up in the rear.

I eventually just caved and paid my dealer to "fix" it. I asked him to replace the hardware with the BMW parts (spacing on the name). But they couldn't figure it out. So they drilled and helicoliled. It works.

Good luck. I know the frustration.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:50 PM   #5
runnin4melife
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Hmmmm I haven't used red Loctite on the BMW but have on a few dirtbikes in the past. I would use a heat gun or a soldering gun to pinpoint heat the area (soldering gun for near the tank). I am not sure if any solvent will reduce the integrity of the red Loctite. The lower bolts you hacked off are going to be hard to remove...

Straight from Loctite:

Q: What solvents can I use to remove liquid Loctite materials?
A: Most organic solvents are effective in removing anaerobic and cyanoacrylate adhesives. Chlorinated solvents are most commonly used. Dry MEK and acetone are used on applications using instant adhesives.
Q: How can I remove a fastener that is "permanently" locked in?
A: The application of heat is needed to remove a fastener that can't be removed with a hand tool. Temperatures of 325F and above is needed to break down a standard anaerobic, 500F for high temperature Anaerobics. A heat gun or propane torch is commonly used to do this process, and careful disassembly should occur while parts are still hot. Once apart, and cooled, use methylene chloride (Chisel #79040) to remove cured excess material. Always wipe down the fasteners with clean up solvent to remove the wax film that Chisel leaves on the surface.
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:48 PM   #6
lookaught OP
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Yeah normally I use a torch on red loctite but I didn't realize they were attached with red... because it's extreme, ridiculous overkill and whoever did it needs a swift kick in the junk. The one top plate bolt was already spinning before I put a wrench on it, and I guess I was just a bit too cautious with the torch on those ones underneath because they are like 1/4" from the plastic gas tank... I did get the others out on the exhaust side without an issue, it just needs a good 30-45 seconds of direct propane heat to melt the loctite.

Anyway, getting the studs out shouldnt be too difficult now that I can put the heat right down on the insert. Once i get them out I bought this tool to attempt to retighten the rivet nuts before I move on to replacement. I hope they can be just tightened.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004KLVJAA/...410_item_image
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:18 PM   #7
toowheels
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookaught View Post
well, I suck at the searching.

Problem and solution:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ghlight=rivnut
Hey lookaught,

I'm a little late to the party here but you've found the best thread dealing with the subject.

I've run into this in about 1 out of 150 top rack installs and even on brand new bikes.

Please everybody stop installing anything if it starts to bind!! Tighten the Rivnut and/or tap it! (not the case for you courtesy of the red Loc-Tite.)

Use the simple tool in the thread above that anyone can assemble.

Thanks,

Dave
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:55 PM   #8
zaner32
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+1 Had this issue for the pannier frame mounts. Tightened it up with somewhat of the same tool without the bar. Just the bolt, washer and nut.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toowheels View Post
Hey lookaught,

I'm a little late to the party here but you've found the best thread dealing with the subject.

I've run into this in about 1 out of 150 top rack installs and even on brand new bikes.

Please everybody stop installing anything if it starts to bind!! Tighten the Rivnut and/or tap it! (not the case for you courtesy of the red Loc-Tite.)

Use the simple tool in the thread above that anyone can assemble.

Thanks,

Dave
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:33 AM   #9
lookaught OP
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Update:

Ordered the rivet nut tool from Amazon for $36 and some stainless M8 rivnuts from McMaster Carr and replaced the spinning rivnuts. I tried to tighten them but it wasn't working well, and hell, I bought the tool so I was damn well going to use it!

Nothing too exciting. The tools comes with different bits to do M5, M6, M8 and I think M10 rivnuts. Works easily enough, but it does take some strength to use it. There are quite a few rivnuts of various sizes on the bike, and my motto in life is that money spent on a tool is never money wasted, so for $36, I recommend this tool for those who don't mind spending a bit of money.

The whole process took about 10 minutes, plus another 20 to R&R the bodywork to get to the subframe. I haven't replaced the ones underneath the bike yet but I imagine there is no way to remove the rivnut when it's drilled, and it'll just fall down the subframe tube and rattle for eternity... oh well.

Tool:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

M8 Nuts:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#97467A693

Drilled. The screwdriver is stuck in the side to bind the nut to keep it from spinning. I could have clamped it with vice grips on the top flange but this just seemed quicker and easier. It doesn't take much drilling to remove enough metal to get these out.



Once drilled I cleaned it with brake cleaner to get off the oil from drilling so that there was no lubricant to make the new nuts more likely to spin in the future.

New nuts in place. The nuts or ordered are a perfect fit for the diameter of the holes in the 800:

Tool in action.

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F800GS 30th - sold and replaced by... a 2010 F800GS!
CRF450R
Solo Ride Pennsylvania to Anchorage, Alaska and back 2011

Two Ape supermotos take on the Dragon

lookaught screwed with this post 04-02-2014 at 11:38 AM
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:55 PM   #10
GPHusky250
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You learn something every day. Here's a You Tube link for one style of Rivnut. They have a notch to keep it from spinning...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_uu_ba6qAM
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:28 PM   #11
pkbinder
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I had the same problem with exactly the same rivnut. With a bit of help from someone with actual mechanical aptitude, we wrestled out the stripped rivnut, found just the right sized FLANGED nut, cut off two sides of the flange and it fit perfect just under the frame. Couple little spot welds and it is just perfect. Pk
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:25 PM   #12
HighTechCoonass
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Thumbs down

same happened to me... I used a vice grip to hold the nut from spinning to remove a cross threaded bolt...



then was able to re-tap...



I was installing my Touratech Zaga rack with a top plate...

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:53 PM   #13
Reaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbinder View Post
I had the same problem with exactly the same rivnut. With a bit of help from someone with actual mechanical aptitude, we wrestled out the stripped rivnut, found just the right sized FLANGED nut, cut off two sides of the flange and it fit perfect just under the frame. Couple little spot welds and it is just perfect. Pk
I did the same but with no welder, I used a larger standard nut under it as a spacer then jammed a washer to fill the remaining gap. A bit of krazy glue held things together. Used anti sieze on the bolt and carefully installed to avoid cross threading. Not ideal but it'll be years before I need to remove the luggage rack and maybe by then my Sonic Screwdriver will come. It was back ordered.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:07 AM   #14
pkbinder
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Sonic Screwdriver? Is that from the future? pk
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Old 04-12-2014, 05:05 AM   #15
tsdrob
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Eek

I'll post photos of my repair. Apparently I'm one of the 1 in 150 Dave talks about. Bike has less than 500 miles on it. The other three worked just fine.

BTW, Dave the rack look great.

It didn't take much to get the bolt crossed. I started it by hand and got it a good way in before the AS minute.

It wasn't even one of the "hold my beer, watch this" moments.
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