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Old 03-11-2014, 07:22 PM   #16
FredRydr
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Originally Posted by gleyfman View Post
I have been recently to the ClearLight presentation and the guy implied that "yellowish" light of the regular headlight is too "normal" and people tend to not see it after some time.
To be blunt, I don't believe that. Also, the only way to satisfy that implication is to buy bulbs, blue ones probably.

Here are two useful links to start your own research.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com
http://store.candlepower.com

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Old 03-11-2014, 07:58 PM   #17
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There a number of photo's of bike headlights where the reflector has been blackened, supposedly with stock bulbs.

I would be a little wary of putting in brighter bulbs that put out more heat.
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:40 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by rem47 View Post
You appear to have taken away the wrong message from the Clearwater presentation. What they (and others) advocate is a three point triangular light source to increase conspicuity.

The reason is that a single point light source is more difficult to judge distance and speed than a multi point light source (eg a car) and beefing up the amount of light emitted by a single source makes it even more difficult to judge distance and speed. Which is why people who drive around in daylight on main beam thinking they are more conspicuous and safer are deluding themselves.

I have to totally agree with this. My wife has a Kawi KLX250SF (supermoto version of the KLX w/17 inch wheels). Its small and also black and just doesn't show up well at all. It was like every other time I rode it a car would pull out in front of me or see the bike at the last second and slam on their brakes and I was scared for her to ride it at all. So I ordered a set of these http://www.twistedthrottle.com/denal...#review-anchor which is the smallest and cheapest Denali's that Twisted Throttle sells, mounted them on each side of the front fender and have not had a car pull out in front of her or me when on this bike since.

Another plus is at times we ride at night returning home from work and these things light up the night. So even though pricey, they are well worth it for more than one reason.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:19 PM   #19
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Ok, there is no contest that adding extra lights is better.

However I would strongly doubt statement that having stronger/whiter headlight actually makes you less visible!

IT is not a matter of judging the distance, but being seen at all!
From my personal experience I know I notice the cars with "blue" headlights far more often. They do stand out, as it simply something different and will trigger your brain response!

I am inclining to go with AUX lights, but have another concern on the mounting position and methods. In many applications I have seen here it looks like the light is going to be destroyed even in small drop.
Often it looks like it would also go through the side panels and create a lot of damage...
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Old 03-12-2014, 08:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by gleyfman View Post
Looking for input and ideas!

I have been recently to the ClearLight presentation and the guy implied that "yellowish" light of the regular headlight is too "normal" and people tend to not see it after some time.
He explains that adding the set of LED light of different temperature essentially makes it more visible to drivers.

Before spending 500$+ on that, how about just replacing bulb in one of the headlights?
I was thinking replacing High beam with "white/blue" H7 bulb should be a good start?

Any thought?
I see many people converted to HID e.t.c, so was wondering did you notice others see you better. Less cars turn in front of you?

Thanks!
I kid you not, It was like the flick of a switch ( 6000K HID) Same effect appears to be had with 6000K LED. I agree with your assessment that it is the color temp, more so that the beam.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:06 PM   #21
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These do look nice!

What about the night time? Do they safe to use without blinding the traffic?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRidgeKat View Post
I have to totally agree with this. My wife has a Kawi KLX250SF (supermoto version of the KLX w/17 inch wheels). Its small and also black and just doesn't show up well at all. It was like every other time I rode it a car would pull out in front of me or see the bike at the last second and slam on their brakes and I was scared for her to ride it at all. So I ordered a set of these http://www.twistedthrottle.com/denal...#review-anchor which is the smallest and cheapest Denali's that Twisted Throttle sells, mounted them on each side of the front fender and have not had a car pull out in front of her or me when on this bike since.

Another plus is at times we ride at night returning home from work and these things light up the night. So even though pricey, they are well worth it for more than one reason.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gleyfman View Post

However I would strongly doubt statement that having stronger/whiter headlight actually makes you less visible!

IT is not a matter of judging the distance, but being seen at all!
From my personal experience I know I notice the cars with "blue" headlights far more often. They do stand out, as it simply something different and will trigger your brain response!
.
I see where you are coming from but consider:

Case 1 There is a population of road users who dont see you because they do not look - solution 1 drive accordingly

Case 2 There is a population of road users who look but dont see you because they somehow do not register that you are there. Solution 2 increase your visibility by driving with headlight on wear high vis clothing and helmet. Solution 1 drive accordingly

Case 3 there is a population of road users who look but cannot register your high vis strategy in Case 2. Solution 3 You are advocating a solution that uses a different kind of light brightness/colour that enables this population to see you. Solution 1 drive accordingly.

Case 4 There is a population of road users who see you but process the information incorrectly to determine your position and speed and pull out in front of you. Solution 4 use visual aids that help these users correctly determine your speed and position - two/three point light source BUT avoid increasing light intensity so that the observer is dazzled and cant see other cues such as the motorcycle profile that would enable them to better judge distance and speed. Solution 1 drive accordingly.

As Nevermind has rightly said there is one solution to all these cases - Drive at all times like people cant see you.

The rest we dont know for sure because the data just is not there so we rely on our own experience and instinct.

What I am "suggesting" is that the number of people and risk in Case 3 (people who dont register your standard headlight and high vis strategy) is small (my perception on European roads), and there is a threshold of headlight brightness which would actually increase disproportionately the number of people in Case 4 and counteract any benefit.

My assertion is based upon something I read (I am not an expert - just an armchair variety) about the difficulty the human brain has in determining speed and position of a light source moving towards it. To do with saturation of receptors in the retina. So the change in size and brightness as the object approaches that would normally be used to compute speed and distance cant be detected.

Back to your question and practicalities of mounting AUX lights - have you thought of fork mounts using the clamps that are intended for attaching steering dampers - cheap and relatively tucked away. Also can you tell us what bike you have?

You can buy a number of different dimming options for LEDs now to run high outputs lights on main and dimmed on low beam to avoid dazzling: you dont have to spend $500. This was mine http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthr...=1#post3487670

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Old 03-13-2014, 04:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by gleyfman View Post
These do look nice!

What about the night time? Do they safe to use without blinding the traffic?

Thanks
As long as they are mounted no higher than the top of your front fender or lower and adjusted correctly they are fine for street use and on coming traffic. If you do off road riding at night then I would suggest something bigger, brighter and mounted higher.

Here's some prior posted mounting options.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696165
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Old 03-13-2014, 04:53 PM   #24
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I spoke with the guy @ TwistedT about these and he though they would not work for night time, as they aren't adjustable. So they can be used as a day time running lights only.
He was pointing at other model, that had high/low beam modes, but cost around 360$. So it comes really close to that ClearWater price point for the smaller set that have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRidgeKat View Post
As long as they are mounted no higher than the top of your front fender or lower and adjusted correctly they are fine for street use and on coming traffic. If you do off road riding at night then I would suggest something bigger, brighter and mounted higher.

Here's some prior posted mounting options.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696165
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:22 AM   #25
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To me, adjustable is moving them up and down and left and right and they most certainly do that. As long as you don't have them pointing directly at on coming traffic or using them AND your high beams when cars are coming I see no problem. Before these I had a set of the old D1 Denali's that are no longer available on a DR650 and rode to work every night. Besides, if you cant use them at night why the hell is Twisted Throttle showing pictures of them going down a road at night??



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Old 03-14-2014, 10:51 AM   #26
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I am currently in the process of researching a HID setup for my bike, I have wanted to do it for a while but put it on a lower merit than other mods. This week my cousin an another motorcyclist were killed when a school bus abruptly made a left turn in front of them. I don't know if scalding bright HID lights would have increased their chances of being noticed in this incident but I would rather have any fractional increase in visibility both in terms of mine and of other drivers seeing me. Here is an interesting article from the UK, the good stuff is towards the end but it relates to the science of why motorcyclists aren't seen and it is actually empirically based... that doesn't excuse the offenses though.

http://www.network.mag-uk.org/smidsy...oo%20Close.pdf
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:14 PM   #27
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Sorry to hear about your loss! IT is always hard to read about another accident caused by driver's negligence.
Yep, it is a tough topic to discuss and honestly I don't know the right answer.
Even that study you posted mentions that while running lights may help to brake camouflage, it may also dazzle and cause driver to misjudge the distance to the bike!

May be going with that "triangle" setup ClearWater guy referred to is a best idea after all, as I can see where it would help you to stand out and provide visual reference for distance...

Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin4melife View Post
I am currently in the process of researching a HID setup for my bike, I have wanted to do it for a while but put it on a lower merit than other mods. This week my cousin an another motorcyclist were killed when a school bus abruptly made a left turn in front of them. I don't know if scalding bright HID lights would have increased their chances of being noticed in this incident but I would rather have any fractional increase in visibility both in terms of mine and of other drivers seeing me. Here is an interesting article from the UK, the good stuff is towards the end but it relates to the science of why motorcyclists aren't seen and it is actually empirically based... that doesn't excuse the offenses though.

http://www.network.mag-uk.org/smidsy...oo%20Close.pdf
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:18 PM   #28
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To clarify - by adjustable I mean "dimmable".
While you of course can ride with these lights at night on the empty road (as it shows in their picture), it would be too bright for oncoming traffic.
The LEDs are brighter than your High beam already and your turn your High beam off for a reason, so it makes sense you will have to turn these off if you can't dim em enough...

G

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRidgeKat View Post
To me, adjustable is moving them up and down and left and right and they most certainly do that. As long as you don't have them pointing directly at on coming traffic or using them AND your high beams when cars are coming I see no problem. Before these I had a set of the old D1 Denali's that are no longer available on a DR650 and rode to work every night. Besides, if you cant use them at night why the hell is Twisted Throttle showing pictures of them going down a road at night??

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Old 03-14-2014, 07:24 PM   #29
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Dimming does not prevent the beam from dazzling oncoming drivers (unless it is reduced to essentially useless). If you compare the reflector or lens of a low/dipped beam, you'll find that they "cut" the beam off at the top. If aimed properly, you should see the edge of that beam on the road well before oncoming traffic is close to your bike. The answer is to turn accessory spot or flood lights off where a main/high beam would dazzle oncoming drivers.

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Old 03-14-2014, 08:02 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by rem47 View Post
+1

Gleyfman if your aim is solely to increase your conspicuity in daylight and avoid people pulling out in front or you, IMO just increasing the amount of light your headlight emits will achieve exactly the opposite effect.

You appear to have taken away the wrong message from the Clearwater presentation. What they (and others) advocate is a three point triangular light source to increase conspicuity.

The reason is that a single point light source is more difficult to judge distance and speed than a multi point light source (eg a car) and beefing up the amount of light emitted by a single source makes it even more difficult to judge distance and speed. Which is why people who drive around in daylight on main beam thinking they are more conspicuous and safer are deluding themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin4melife View Post
I am currently in the process of researching a HID setup for my bike, I have wanted to do it for a while but put it on a lower merit than other mods. This week my cousin an another motorcyclist were killed when a school bus abruptly made a left turn in front of them. I don't know if scalding bright HID lights would have increased their chances of being noticed in this incident but I would rather have any fractional increase in visibility both in terms of mine and of other drivers seeing me. Here is an interesting article from the UK, the good stuff is towards the end but it relates to the science of why motorcyclists aren't seen and it is actually empirically based... that doesn't excuse the offenses though.

http://www.network.mag-uk.org/smidsy...oo%20Close.pdf
Good article. I would like to add my theory to this conversation. The adage has always been "look where you want to go". The idea is you miss the pothole because you don't look at it. More than once, I've ignored this and hit the very obstacle I was trying to avoid. I think this is the reason police cars and the like are hit when they're stopped with their lights flashing is because drivers steer toward what they're viewing. I've had oncoming drivers who I belive were seeing me, veer into my lane only to swerve back when they realized they were over the line. I agree with the advice in the article to create some lateral movement to improve your visibility. I believe in the 3-light concept but I don't believe more lights improve the odds on the road. Just my take.
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