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Old 05-02-2014, 06:16 PM   #1081
Uncle Pollo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Thanks for your interest, Uncle! The last of the IICE Airs will be available to order before the end of April.

I got an iice unused unit from one of your customers

Now my temperamental r1100rt is much smoother.

Since I do the same commute every day I have a pretty good "test track" that I know very well and how the bike feels and responds.

The "raspiness" under acceleration is gone on the low end.

The hesitation between 3k and 5k rpm is gone.

Between 5k and 7k it feels like a bit healthier.
The bike always felt too lean. Now it feels about as good as it could be.

The people that say it does nothing perhaps they have not a well calibrated seat of pants.



It does what it says it does.

Waiting for more products to come.

Uncle Pollo screwed with this post 05-03-2014 at 05:08 AM Reason: bored at the toilet
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:35 AM   #1082
Three Dawg
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Quote:
The people that say it does nothing perhaps they have not a well calibrated seat of pants.
As I understand it, some of the later (cleverer?) bikes 'learn out' the temperature spoofer, hence the need for a recalibration part.
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Old 05-03-2014, 07:40 AM   #1083
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Defining The "Issue"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Dawg View Post
As I understand it, some of the later (cleverer?) bikes 'learn out' the temperature spoofer, hence the need for a recalibration part.
3D,

That is also my understanding that the oxygen sensors recorded the increase fuel to air ratio provided by the IICE Air and recalibrate the bikes computers to bring down the fuel ratio to the BMW prescribed ratio...hence we lose the use of the effectiveness of the device at all but the -30 setting...at least that is my understanding. Why the bike does not also "tune out" the -30 setting fuel ratio is a mystery to me.

Can someone verify what exactly is happening that requires the recalibration which PS is working on?

I always can appreciate the "why" as much as the "what".

Thanks...Phil
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Old 05-03-2014, 08:38 AM   #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
3D,

That is also my understanding that the oxygen sensors recorded the increase fuel to air ratio provided by the IICE Air and recalibrate the bikes computers to bring down the fuel ratio to the BMW prescribed ratio...hence we lose the use of the effectiveness of the device at all but the -30 setting...at least that is my understanding. Why the bike does not also "tune out" the -30 setting fuel ratio is a mystery to me.

Can someone verify what exactly is happening that requires the recalibration which PS is working on?

I always can appreciate the "why" as much as the "what".

Thanks...Phil
As I understand it...

The IIceAir is just 3 different thermistors in a single housing. Each thermistor has a different range (a thermistor is a resistor that changes valve based on temperature) which you can select using the jumper. For "zero" offset the jumper connects to the stock sensor.

The issue is that BMW used two different value thermistors depending on the bike / ecu. The Air was developed based on the value of one thermistor. It has been discovered that the offset values between the two OEM thermistors is such that the -20 setting of the Air closely matches the resistance values of the stock thermistor used on the R1200, F650 and a number of other models. (Poolside posted a chart in this thread.) Basically, there is no offset on the -20 or "zero" setting if you have one of these models and the -10 offsets will be +10 actual and the -30 will be -10 actual.

From what Poolside posted, the fix appears to be a resistor on a jumper board that will plug onto the selector pins of the Air. The resistor should adjust the values of the thermistors in the Air to more closely match with the values the ecu on the affected bikes expects to see (to make the proper fueling adjustment). I imagine you will have to use the non-resistor jumper if you want to use the "zero" setting so as not to have the resistor in the stock circuit.

The understandable frustration comes from people who waited a long time for their units to be delivered and have now discovered these units don't work correctly. Followed by more waiting for the correction part. (BTW, I bought 4, all of which need the correction part. I can with it)

Just my $.02
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Old 05-03-2014, 08:49 AM   #1085
Three Dawg
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Quote:
As I understand it...

The IIceAir is just 3 different thermistors in a single housing. Each thermistor has a different range (a thermistor is a resistor that changes valve based on temperature) which you can select using the jumper. For "zero" offset the jumper connects to the stock sensor.

The issue is that BMW used two different value thermistors depending on the bike / ecu. The Air was developed based on the value of one thermistor. It has been discovered that the offset values between the two OEM thermistors is such that the -20 setting of the Air closely matches the resistance values of the stock thermistor used on the R1200, F650 and a number of other models. (Poolside posted a chart in this thread.) Basically, there is no offset on the -20 or "zero" setting if you have one of these models and the -10 offsets will be +10 actual and the -30 will be -10 actual.

From what Poolside posted, the fix appears to be a resistor on a jumper board that will plug onto the selector pins of the Air. The resistor should adjust the values of the thermistors in the Air to more closely match with the values the ecu on the affected bikes expects to see (to make the proper fueling adjustment). I imagine you will have to use the non-resistor jumper if you want to use the "zero" setting so as not to have the resistor in the stock circuit.

The understandable frustration comes from people who waited a long time for their units to be delivered and have now discovered these units don't work correctly. Followed by more waiting for the correction part. (BTW, I bought 4, all of which need the correction part. I can with it)
Clear and concise. Thanks. Shame all the 1200 boys aren't getting the benefit immediately- it works a treat on my old banger!
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Old 05-03-2014, 03:17 PM   #1086
johnjen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJS View Post
As I understand it...

snip

From what Poolside posted, the fix appears to be a resistor on a jumper board that will plug onto the selector pins of the Air. The resistor should adjust the values of the thermistors in the Air to more closely match with the values the ecu on the affected bikes expects to see (to make the proper fueling adjustment). I imagine you will have to use the non-resistor jumper if you want to use the "zero" setting so as not to have the resistor in the stock circuit.

snip
Just my $.02
There are no resistors used in the IICE Air, nor the calibration board.

"(The part shown is one of the thermistors on the Calibration plug-in.)"
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=1062

Resistors simply can't work since they are a linear device and thermistors are non-linear.

This means that non-linear curves are involved which are considerably more complicated.
There will be more on this later.

JJ
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Old 05-03-2014, 08:52 PM   #1087
Wallowa
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Talking Thanks MJS..

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJS View Post
As I understand it...

The IIceAir is just 3 different thermistors in a single housing. Each thermistor has a different range (a thermistor is a resistor that changes valve based on temperature) which you can select using the jumper. For "zero" offset the jumper connects to the stock sensor.

The issue is that BMW used two different value thermistors depending on the bike / ecu. The Air was developed based on the value of one thermistor. It has been discovered that the offset values between the two OEM thermistors is such that the -20 setting of the Air closely matches the resistance values of the stock thermistor used on the R1200, F650 and a number of other models. (Poolside posted a chart in this thread.) Basically, there is no offset on the -20 or "zero" setting if you have one of these models and the -10 offsets will be +10 actual and the -30 will be -10 actual.

From what Poolside posted, the fix appears to be a resistor on a jumper board that will plug onto the selector pins of the Air. The resistor should adjust the values of the thermistors in the Air to more closely match with the values the ecu on the affected bikes expects to see (to make the proper fueling adjustment). I imagine you will have to use the non-resistor jumper if you want to use the "zero" setting so as not to have the resistor in the stock circuit.

The understandable frustration comes from people who waited a long time for their units to be delivered and have now discovered these units don't work correctly. Followed by more waiting for the correction part. (BTW, I bought 4, all of which need the correction part. I can with it)

Just my $.02
Thanks very much for what is for me the first cogent explanation I have heard on the "issues" concerning the need for a calibration correction. And I do understand, as you said, that the IICE Air used thermistors, but had no idea of the complication created in conjunction with the BMW ECU values and the reason why the -30 still gives more fuel and hence in my terminology a richer mixture when needed.

Thanks again MJS for the breakdown of the issues...and for the record I have two IICE Airs and will buy the digital updated devices when they become available..

Phil
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Old 05-03-2014, 09:13 PM   #1088
MJS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjen View Post
There are no resistors used in the IICE Air, nor the calibration board.

"(The part shown is one of the thermistors on the Calibration plug-in.)"
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...postcount=1062

Resistors simply can't work since they are a linear device and thermistors are non-linear.

This means that non-linear curves are involved which are considerably more complicated.
There will be more on this later.

JJ
Good to know it's not just an add on resistor, for the reason you mentioned. Is this now going to be two thermistors in series with the calibration part?
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Old 05-03-2014, 09:38 PM   #1089
johnjen
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Since it’s a non-linear device we are matching, over a wide temperature range, it is much more complicated than "two thermistors in series".

This will be explained more fully in due course.

JJ
ps.
And in that link to Poolsides post, did you see the actual part in the picture?
Some will understand what is involved in dealing with using parts the size of grains of salt.
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Old 05-08-2014, 02:24 PM   #1090
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A little update


Ok, today I'm ordering what I'm confident is the final version of the Calibration board. It will be nice to get these little gems built !



Forward Looking Statements

This press release contains certain forward-looking statements that are based upon current expectations and involve certain risks and uncertainties within the meaning of the U.S. Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Words or expressions such as "anticipate," "plan," "will," "intend," "believe" or "expect" or variations of such words and similar expressions are intended to identify such forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and are subject to risks, uncertainties, and other factors, some of which are beyond our control and difficult to predict and could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or forecasted in the forward-looking statements. Key risks are described in the filings we make with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The forward-looking statements in this release speak only as of the date they are made. We undertake no obligation to revise or update publicly any forward-looking statement for any reason. Unless otherwise stated, all site traffic and usage statistics are from third-party service providers engaged by the company. Traffic and our monetization of that traffic combine to determine our revenues for any given period. Our traffic volume alone for a period should not be viewed as demonstrative of our financial results for such period.



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Old 05-08-2014, 02:40 PM   #1091
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Eek Damn Poolside...What Is This?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Ok, today I'm ordering what I'm confident is the final version of the Calibration board. It will be nice to get these little gems built !



Forward Looking Statements

This press release contains certain forward-looking statements that are based upon current expectations and involve certain risks and uncertainties within the meaning of the U.S. Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Words or expressions such as "anticipate," "plan," "will," "intend," "believe" or "expect" or variations of such words and similar expressions are intended to identify such forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance and are subject to risks, uncertainties, and other factors, some of which are beyond our control and difficult to predict and could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or forecasted in the forward-looking statements. Key risks are described in the filings we make with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. The forward-looking statements in this release speak only as of the date they are made. We undertake no obligation to revise or update publicly any forward-looking statement for any reason. Unless otherwise stated, all site traffic and usage statistics are from third-party service providers engaged by the company. Traffic and our monetization of that traffic combine to determine our revenues for any given period. Our traffic volume alone for a period should not be viewed as demonstrative of our financial results for such period.


I would rather even read another GB Shaw quote than this "FLS". Once again, I do not know if you are being jocular or this is 'lawyering up'!
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:00 PM   #1092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolside View Post
Ok, today I'm ordering what I'm confident is the final version of the Calibration board. It will be nice to get these little gems built !
Good news, I'm glad we're one step closer to digital bliss.
Quote:
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Forward Looking Statements
I get it. Didja have to run this past Marketing first, or just Legal?
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Old 05-08-2014, 03:13 PM   #1093
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ADV has come to this??
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:13 PM   #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post

Good news, I'm glad we're one step closer to digital bliss.


I get it. Didja have to run this past Marketing first, or just Legal?
I just happened to be reading a press release and it just struck me as funny in this context.


And of course it called out the usual clerics. 


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Old 05-08-2014, 04:52 PM   #1095
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Originally Posted by bracky72 View Post

How can it be funny...?

And your only recourse it to provide pithy comments to anyone that questions you?
Funny in the context of the group of 10 or so of you admirers.

You fellows aren't really questioning me. You're just causing trouble while we do what we can to move forward. And try and have a little fun while we do it.



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