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Old 02-26-2014, 10:57 PM   #3226
marchyman
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Location: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveburton View Post
I have a new (2 actually) antenna and have tried to start the bike with them. I'm getting an intermittent fault that is getting worse for sure. The antennas did not help although I thought it was a bit better, ie frequency of good starts improved a bit.
When the ignition is turned on the engine management checks for a known key. It sends some kind of signal that is radiated by the antenna and reads the response from the key. If a valid response isn't received you'll get the EWS warning. If the response is valid the system lets you start the bike and the circuit will not be checked again until the next time you try to start the bike.

That leads to several possible failure modes:
  • There is not enough battery power to run the BMS-K
  • The BMS-K is not sending the signal due to an internal failure (unlikely, IMHO)
  • The signal is not getting to the antenna (wiring?)
  • The antenna is broken (but you say the spare is doing the same thing)
  • The key is broken (do you have a spare key?)
I'm guessing that your antenna was never the problem. I'd swap keys first, because that is easy. Then I'd start tracing the wires looking for a place where cable ties and vibration have done some damage. That is not an unknown issue with some bikes.
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Old 02-27-2014, 04:22 AM   #3227
daveburton
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EWS fault and stuck in Ushuaia

Thanks a lot for the response,

I've tried the antenna as many people said that it could be the issue, no luck.
I've tried the spare key.
I've not done much with the battery as it seemed very good but will now eck that.
I'm thinking it might be a trapped wire now based on your list. I did remove one tie wrap that was very tight.

Thanks for the help.

cheers dave
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:59 AM   #3228
jpalamar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveburton View Post
Hi,

I saw your reference to bad battery. I have a new (2 actually) antenna and have tried to start the bike with them. I'm getting an intermittent fault that is getting worse for sure. The antennas did not help although I thought it was a bit better, ie frequency of good starts improved a bit.

Do you know what else I could try. What defines a battery problem, the bike was starting first time even after being stood for months and just prior to this problem I had covered 2000 miles in about 5 days so I assume it's charged.

I've disconnected the battery for the night to see if the ECU needs a rest, can't hurt.

Any help anyone can offer will be much appreciated as I'm about to stick the bike on a truck or boat to Buenos Aires.

Unless it's something trivial I'm concerned about using the bike further for this kind of thing. I generally travel alone and it could have been a lot worse as I was on very remote roads.

In addition both shocks are now leaking.

Cheers dave
Dave, from my experience and many others the EWS/'ring' failure is not intermittent? Tho' I have not read this complete thread, but am talking from my experiences primarily.

People's good or bad fortune with batteries seem to vary, but here are some tips. Electronic devices plugged into AUX (non-CAN-bus sockets) do draw current, called parasitic draw. Best unplug these devices. Some devices even with 'switch off' draw current. Some CAN-bus sockets are faulty and do not properly 'shut-off', also drawing current with the device plugged in.

Some people have 'Deltran Battery Tenders'. Many leave them plugged in all of the time and have good results, others have claimed they have ruined their good battery. I hedge my bet by putting bikes on BT's with a Christmas light timer so that the timer turns it on for 1-hour per day for battery maintenance.

Batteries for some BMW's owners seem to be their Achille's Heel. If I were traveling on remote roads I'd give some consideration to keeping something that could start/augment/jump battery in an emergency. There are lots of alternatives, they do take space in the pannier but peace of mind can be worth it.

Good luck, surely I didn't tell you anything you didn't know.
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:33 AM   #3229
daveburton
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EWS fault and stuck in Ushuaia

Thanks,

Nothing I didn't know but still very much appreciated as it gives me assurance for the decisions I'm making.

Jumped the bike from a truck this morning, it started but was completely erratic in terms of fueling and the electronic display. It then repeated the fault numerous times when connected to the truck so battery issue eliminated (at least using my logic.)

Re-connect 2 different antennas and same problem. Conclusion, ECU or some type of electronics control. Could be a short as well I think from the antenna to the ECU.

Due to timing and already down 4 days capitulated and arranging to load onto a truck bound for Buenos Aires. Great bike shop here, very helpful but unable to sort problem due to diagnoistic gear needed.

I'll get a set of WESA wilbur GS shocks -25mm organised as well since mine are now leaking badly after the rough roads.

Not happy but reconciled to our fate this time.

Any views on suspension upgrades, I'll let you know what the fault is once we have it fixed. Mech here thinks it'll probably be a trapped wire as likely as anything else and that will just take time to track down however he was concerned about us heading along our route as is. We'll be pretty remote in Southern Chile so proobably best to quit ahead.

cheers dave
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:47 AM   #3230
bajaburro
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problem

bro you be fucked,in your vernacular.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:48 AM   #3231
daveburton
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problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by bajaburro View Post
bro you be fucked,in your vernacular.

Can't argue with that.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:39 AM   #3232
eric2
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I had an EWS error that was caused by the gas tank rubbing through a wire on the right front side. '05 GS, I got it to start once after I got the error and got home, but that was it. I think '06 was the only year that had defective antennas.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:00 PM   #3233
daveburton
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EWS fault and stuck in Ushuaia

Guys, thanks for the help. Got the bike shipped 2,000 miles to the dealer in Buenos Aires. Turns out it was the BMS-KP.

Currently trying to get one in the US.

Due to the import regs in Argentina it could take 5 months to get one imported. Be warned about riding in Argentina, fantastic rides but no spares and service difficult if you get these kinds of problems. The shop in BUE has been helpful so far but still looks like it'll take about 3 months or maybe 4 to get it sorted out.

I have arranged for Wilbers shocks to replace my damaged units but can't get them sent till the computer is fixed. Overall an very expensive clusterf**k.

Probably should have tried to ship the bike to the US from Ushuaia, repaired it and sold it. Maybe could have happened to any bike but I have 2 x Super Tenere's and both have been dead reliable however one is still lower mileage.

My BM has done 17K miles.

If anyone has any ideas about getting the spares into Argentina I'd appreciate any advice I can get.

cheers dave
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Old 05-05-2014, 04:13 AM   #3234
jamespbaum
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Slightly new twist on this problem - any ideas?

Hi -- I'm new here and I read every post in this 10 year long thread last night looking for insight (and found a lot of it - thank you). I have a BRAND NEW 2014 R1200GS with 300 miles on it. I was setting up my toolkit for the bike over the weekend and one of the things I like to carry is a small air compressor to fix flats. I don't have anything specifically for motorcycles, just one of those cheapo Chinese units that cost like $10.

I decided to test the air compressor before filing it away in my pannier. I didn't really know much or understand the canbus system when I plugged the compressor in to the canbus controlled power outlet on the machine. The compressor ran for about 1/2 second and then cut out. I figured I had blown a fuse (I know now - none to be found) but quickly discovered that the bike would not start and the immobilization lock was to blame.

I let the bike sit for about and hour and then it started. I figured that the computer reset itself and all was now fine. That proved to NOT be the case. The immobilizer now locks out intermittently. I find that most of the time it is locked out but every now and then, I put the key in and it starts. Then a few hours later, it doesn't.

My spare keys are about 250 miles away from where I am so I have not tested with another key. I am going to get the bike back to the dealer this week but my dealer is also about 250 miles away.

Anybody got any ideas on what's happening? Could the compressor have somehow done some damage to the BMS-K, ring antenna, or key?
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Old 05-05-2014, 05:21 AM   #3235
JimVonBaden
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The compressor issue and the key issue are not related. Most likely you have a bad antenna or key. This is a first for the Wethead so far.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:45 AM   #3236
Wallowa
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Couple Of Thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamespbaum View Post
Hi -- I'm new here and I read every post in this 10 year long thread last night looking for insight (and found a lot of it - thank you). I have a BRAND NEW 2014 R1200GS with 300 miles on it. I was setting up my toolkit for the bike over the weekend and one of the things I like to carry is a small air compressor to fix flats. I don't have anything specifically for motorcycles, just one of those cheapo Chinese units that cost like $10.

I decided to test the air compressor before filing it away in my pannier. I didn't really know much or understand the canbus system when I plugged the compressor in to the canbus controlled power outlet on the machine. The compressor ran for about 1/2 second and then cut out. I figured I had blown a fuse (I know now - none to be found) but quickly discovered that the bike would not start and the immobilization lock was to blame.

I let the bike sit for about and hour and then it started. I figured that the computer reset itself and all was now fine. That proved to NOT be the case. The immobilizer now locks out intermittently. I find that most of the time it is locked out but every now and then, I put the key in and it starts. Then a few hours later, it doesn't.

My spare keys are about 250 miles away from where I am so I have not tested with another key. I am going to get the bike back to the dealer this week but my dealer is also about 250 miles away.

Anybody got any ideas on what's happening? Could the compressor have somehow done some damage to the BMS-K, ring antenna, or key?
First the compressor most probably required more amps than the plug in on your bike could deliver and system shut itself down...I think 5 amps is max for this "accessory" plug...

Next remember the EWS, at least on my bike, also denotes a weak battery charge or failure...my OEM battery was never correctly charged by the dealer; perhaps the 300 miles was insufficient to charge your battery. In fact the OEM battery needed to be replaced in one year.

Lastly, if the antennae ring truly locks you out, "immobilizes"; I do not believe it will 'correct itself' [not intermittent]; you will need to take it to a BMW dealer to 'turn off' the immobilizer by setting one of the backup key codes [10 per bike?] and re-keying your bike

But I could be wrong.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:59 AM   #3237
gary5410
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I had "EWS" in Utah on my 2007 Adventure in 2008 and it was intermittent. The next day it started and then came back with "EWS" again when I shut off again. I believe I got it started two more times after waiting hours.
SLC BMW robbed the ring off a new bike to get me going and never had a problem after.

Gary

PS My avatar is the day after I got it fixed at....... the Bonneville Salt Flats! :-)
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Old 05-05-2014, 09:37 AM   #3238
undergroundsg
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My friend bought a 2013 R1200GS WC. It happend a few months ago so we took the key out, wait 5 minutes and re-applied the key...the error code disappeared. Bike was good for a few months.

Last month at the border or Cambodia and Thailand, After parking the bike under the super hot sun during our lunch, Key error appeared again. do the same 5 mins trick...it didn't work.

Unconnect the battery twice...still couldn't start the bike.

Used the spare key...still same problem.

So I got pissed off and turn the ingnition on and off about a dozen time continuesly very fast...no luck.

I got even more pissed off because it is 38 Celsius under the Cambodia Sun so I did the same trick (turning the ignition on and off real fast continuously) while holding the start button...it f**king worked... while switching igninion on-off and holding start button, the bike just fired up and we just went on.

Bike made it home ok and it has been 2 months
since the incident...no problem so far.

It might sound stupid...but it did happened believe it or not. So I though I share it here.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:31 PM   #3239
Wallowa
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by gary5410 View Post
I had "EWS" in Utah on my 2007 Adventure in 2008 and it was intermittent. The next day it started and then came back with "EWS" again when I shut off again. I believe I got it started two more times after waiting hours.
SLC BMW robbed the ring off a new bike to get me going and never had a problem after.

Gary

PS My avatar is the day after I got it fixed at....... the Bonneville Salt Flats! :-)
Thanks Gary...I guess they can in fact be an intermittent problem. Odd that the "EWS" came on when you shut it off. Whole ring thing is very confusing to me and I have never heard what exactly was the reason they failed. By that I mean what was the weakness either in the ring, key or ECU.

Phil
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:34 PM   #3240
gary5410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
Odd that the "EWS" came on when you shut it off.
I said that wrong.... It came on when I tried to restart!

....and the reason i never had the problem again may be due to the fact that I carried a spare key ring antenna!

Gary
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