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Old 07-22-2014, 09:18 AM   #61
bio388
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You see, I had the opposite neutral problem a lot of people seem to have. My bike seemed to refuse to go into second on command on first try. It was a little Kawi Eliminator 125. I failed the test because I couldn't get it into second gear. I'd pull as hard as I could up with my toes in a solid motion, it'd click, then fall right into neutral. Instructor came over, road the bike around, came back and said 'there's nothing wrong with it, it's you.'

Really made me mad at the time because I went through the whole class thinking I had to pass the MSF test to get my permit. I was dead wrong. Got the permit even with failing the final test. Passing gives you full license in Maine. I felt so silly after being mad all day over my own misread of the paperwork.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:00 AM   #62
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Reminds me of Prep. It was like that every day. As if Prep wasn't bad enough already...
Dang. I'll never complain about the hot California sun again.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:24 AM   #63
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Strange... not only does that disagree with the MSF, it also seems a bit more dangerous (which is probably why the MSF doesn't agree). Having students push bikes from the side is a great way have one fall over... perhaps even on a student.

Actually, it doesn't ... This is from the MSF range cards. Student should be on the bikes.

12. Prepare for next exercise
Have riders mount and, in small groups,
straddle walk to start position for next exercise
Practice front brake operation
Practice backing up while looking over
shoulder
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:27 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ZiaThunder View Post
Actually, it doesn't ... This is from the MSF range cards. Student should be on the bikes.

12. Prepare for next exercise
• Have riders mount and, in small groups,
straddle walk to start position for next exercise
– Practice front brake operation
– Practice backing up while looking over
shoulder
Huh?? Where does it say to push the bikes while walking next to them? Edit to add: I'm confused. I don't think you read the thread as you're agreeing with me.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:35 AM   #65
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Huh?? Where does it say to push the bikes while walking next to them? Edit to add: I'm confused. I don't think you read the thread as you're agreeing with me.


I took your quoting to mean you thought walking the bikes was okay...

I'll just blame my concusion last wknd for my poor reading comprehension.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:35 PM   #66
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Bio388...
1..Most coaches aren't that rude.
2. Shifting issues should have been discovered and fixed way before final evals. ( Doesn't matter if it the bike or the operator)


3. Kawasaki's have a auto neutral thing...AT A STOP, they normally won't go into 2nd.
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:42 PM   #67
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This may sound strange, but thank you all for posting these insights. It's convinced me that I'm not the kind of person that can be an instructor. You have my utmost respect for giving back to the community and helping new riders be safe - but I think I'd pull my beard out if I tried to do it. I had aspirations, but I think I'm content now to leave it to those with more patience.
It's not as bad as they're making it out to be. In just about any job you're going to have to deal with bosses, other levels of authority, and customers. I mean, if you're going to have a part-time job, standing around shooting the shit about motorcycles isn't a bad way to go.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by reddirtjoe View Post
Bio388...
1..Most coaches aren't that rude.
2. Shifting issues should have been discovered and fixed way before final evals. ( Doesn't matter if it the bike or the operator)
^^^^
agreed.


However, We've not had that nuetral issue with Eliminators, just with the Honda Nighthawks. I like the Eliminators, they are great for smaller women to learn on.
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Old 07-22-2014, 01:47 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by reddirtjoe View Post
Bio388...
1..Most coaches aren't that rude.
2. Shifting issues should have been discovered and fixed way before final evals. ( Doesn't matter if it the bike or the operator)
3. Kawasaki's have a auto neutral thing...AT A STOP, they normally won't go into 2nd.
I agree, the RC could have been more tactful- "the bike seems to be fine, let's look at what you're doing"; but it wouldn't be the first time I'd seen a student freak out and not be able to do something once the four letter word (TEST) has been uttered.

What points are there on the BRC eval (which version of the BRC eval...) , directly related to shifting? It's sometimes amusing to me to hear "I failed because of X". Well, it's pretty hard to fail for just X, but when you add Y and Z...

We had problems with Eliminators early with broken shift shafts. Instructors, used to CB125Ts, would tell students to "just stomp on it" to get it into first. The Eliminator's shift linkage is, um, less than robust, but will still sometimes transmit full force and twist the end of that shaft right off.

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Old 07-22-2014, 01:50 PM   #70
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... is my cryptic way of announcing that I'm currently taking part in "Learning How To Teach People To Ride Motorcycles" class, a.k.a. "Ride Around In Circles In A Hot Parking Lot Until You Barf, And Then Share Your Feelings About It" class.

Day 2 (of 9) wrapped up earlier this evening, and I have to say I'm enjoying it more than I thought I would. I'm *almost* at a point where I feel comfortable just reading what's on the cards and not trying to embellish or editorialize or even paraphrase. Which I suppose is a way of explaining to you n00bs out there why RiderCoaches just read from those range card thingies... because piling on a whole bunch of extra info -- however fascinating and/or technically sound -- would interfere with learning.

In the immortal words of Johnny Carson: I did not know that.

So far we've just been coaching each other. There are only 5 in the class, 2 of whom are current or former police motor officers, so there hasn't been much to correct. But that may change tomorrow as we start messing up on purpose.

Further updates as events warrant.
my understanding of the course is its not "how to teach people to ride" but is a safety course

here in Cali if we pass we get fully licensed which i scratch my head about being if we don't take the course we need to jump through a few hoops to get an M1, no matter how experienced we are. but take a two day rider safety course and they hand you the keys to a 'busa right off the bat
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:00 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by DudeClone View Post
my understanding of the course is its not "how to teach people to ride" but is a safety course
Good point... the "learning to ride" is just a nice extra benefit for some students.

Though I should point out that it's called the Basic RiderCourse, not the Basic SafetyCourse.

As for the rest of your post, that's getting into tiered licensing, which is a whole other discussion (I don't necessarily disagree with your premise though).

When I took the BRC in Oregon in 1991, I only qualified for an under-500cc license, because Oregon still had tiered licensing at the time. When I later moved to CA, the DMV lady wanted to give me an M2 license (which I think was 150cc or less back then) until I pointed out that my Oregon license entitled me to ride "bigger" bikes.

So she just gave me the M1 and said "OK, go out and get yourself a hog."
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:15 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by vaara View Post
As for the rest of your post, that's getting into tiered licensing, which is a whole other discussion (I don't necessarily disagree with your premise though).
As was done in any of the states, it didn't work. People would borrow a KZ550 to get the M1, then go ride the Hawg. AFAIK every state has given up on it as being nearly impossible to enforce, which as written / implemented, they were.

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When I took the BRC in Oregon in 1991,
That far back, it would have been MRC or MRC:RSS, I think. BRC is 2002-2014; what are they calling the new one, BRC-2014?
(edit)
1974-1976: Beginning Rider Course
1976-1986: Motorcycle Rider Course
1986-2004: Motorcycle RiderCourse: Rider and Street Strategies
2004-2014: Basic RiderCoursesm

Found here: http://www.msf-usa.org/downloads/dev...e_msf_rets.pdf


Quote:
I only qualified for an under-500cc license, because Oregon still had tiered licensing at the time.
I had a Virago 920; cranked the idle up a little bit (off-idle was unpredictable on that beast) and fanned the clutch to get through the cone weave. Ten years later, I learned that was not only not cheating, clutch control was pretty much the point.

My buddy (who had a CB360T) borrowed my Virago for his test. Being Orygun, it had just rained- Right after he started the test his visor fogged up, while he was fiddling with that he clotheslined himself on the banner flags they used to block cars from the test area. ON MY BIKE.

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Old 07-22-2014, 02:52 PM   #73
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What points are there on the BRC eval (which version of the BRC eval...) , directly related to shifting? It's sometimes amusing to me to hear "I failed because of X". Well, it's pretty hard to fail for just X, but when you add Y and Z...
Oh, don't get me wrong, I messed up a few other things (forgot instructions on the swerve test and ended up following every other student in swerving in the wrong direction.

The shifting cost me points because I was supposed to shift into 2nd for certain parts of the exercise/tests, and couldn't. The instructor was pretty adamant that we had to shift in order to earn credit (as well as get up to speed, do the corners in a certain amount of time, etc).

I'm not really mad at him at the end of the day. 'Failing' the test just meant I had to take a morning out of my schedule a few months later to take the DMV test (which, of course, consisted of 'drive around the block without hitting anything'). That, in itself, scares me as well... don't crash for five minutes and then you're a fully licensed rider. Kind of wish it were a bit stricter sometimes (especially with cars, actually).
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:54 PM   #74
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That far back, it would have been MRC or MRC:RSS, I think. BRC is 2002-2014; what are they calling the new one, BRC-2014?
IDK about the new one; we're still training on the old one. The new one isn't being implemented in CA until next month, so just as we get certified, we'll have to go right back and get RE-certified on the new course.
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Old 07-23-2014, 07:17 AM   #75
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Oh, don't get me wrong, I messed up a few other things (forgot instructions on the swerve test and ended up following every other student in swerving in the wrong direction.

The shifting cost me points because I was supposed to shift into 2nd for certain parts of the exercise/tests, and couldn't. The instructor was pretty adamant that we had to shift in order to earn credit (as well as get up to speed, do the corners in a certain amount of time, etc).
Um... wow.... everyone swerved in the wrong direction? *THAT* is a problem with the RiderCoach...

There are no points deducted for failure to shift into second. The only place you'll lose points is on the quick stop for not downshifting to first (since you never upshifted, obviously you can't downshift).

Seriously:
Box: no requirement for which gear
Swerve: do it at proper speed and in the proper direction; no requirement for which gear
Quick Stop: proper speed, proper technique, must downshift to first, and within standard stopping distance
Curve: proper technique, speed

So if they wanted to, they could say that by you not shifting into second, you failed to "follow directions in a manner that allows for fair and accurate scoring" you earned maximum points for those exercises.


I'll withhold my opinions since I was not there and did not see how you did in class nor do I know the RC(s) in question or the bike in question.
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