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Old 07-23-2014, 08:36 AM   #76
Andrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
you mean ahead of this FF who is trying to have lane splitting made illegal??
Who, exactly, is trying to have lane-splitting made illegal?
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:33 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khager View Post
Wow that sucks, very rarely hear of someone getting killed while splitting, banged up yes, but not killed.

Since he fled the scene, I would have to say this was done on purpose, road rage? If an accident why not stop?
It does make me question how fast traffic was when he was splitting and how fast he was going. That part of the 15 doesn't usually get that backed up, depending on where this was. It sucks either way, but it was most likely quite preventable, even with splitting lanes.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:11 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Who, exactly, is trying to have lane-splitting made illegal?
did you read all the documents enclosed in that pdf? The guy clearly believes that bikes think they are above the law:

Quote:
The car driver population would prefer that the California Highway Patrol enforce the law as it clearly
now stands and not provide for additional “exceptions” to a
favored population.
.

Quote:
A significant percentage of the car drivers disagree that motorcycle drivers have the “extra” rights to weave
between lanes
Quote:
the car driverpopulation sustains substantial mental stress from the continuing “lane weaving” antics of typical
motorcycle drivers
having the guidelines removed is his opening salvo. then since its not specifically expressed as being legal, he will just rally to make illegal. It cant be that hard especially if there is nothing to overturn
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:13 AM   #79
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Given the anger at the CHP, I will not be surprised if the CHP has some opinions on how to resolve this guy's issues....





But a little TP and a few eggs never hurt!

Even as a MI resident, I feel pretty bad about this. It looked like common sense was really prevailing over there. Good guidelines, support from the fuzz, much clearer boundaries about what is acceptable and what isn't, info for all road users, etc. Many of us have been using those guidelines to demystify lane splitting and filtering to non-riders, and once we say "I use the CHP guidelines, they say..." you get a few CA jokes, but otherwise, people respond positively and it defuses the fear that usually accompanies any talk of riding the lines.

This is a big disappointment. I hope that the CHP is working on a statement and perhaps an action.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:26 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Who, exactly, is trying to have lane-splitting made illegal?
Excerpts from the petition:
Quote:

"Historically, the California Highway Patrol has reserved for itself the right to pick and choose which laws to enforce and to pick and choose whom to enforce the laws against. Californians have accepted this subjective effort by the California Highway Patrol.

However, in issuing its “lane-splitting” guidelines in February 2013, the California Highway Patrol has intruded on the role of the California State Legislature in “making the laws”. In the absence of a law against lane splitting, the agency issued “so- called” regulations that allow reckless behavior on the road. These “guidelines” received no public input and are not sanctioned by statute."


...

"There are 22.6 million licensed vehicle drivers in California. The “so-called” regulations affect every single one of these drivers. A significant percentage of the car drivers disagree that motorcycle drivers have the “extra” rights to weave between lanes that the California Highway Patrol purports to support. Well over 500 motorcyclists are killed on California highways annually. Many more sustain substantial injuries. In addition, the car driver population sustains substantial mental stress from the continuing “lane weaving” antics of typical motorcycle drivers. The car driver population would prefer that the California Highway Patrol enforce the law as it clearly now stands and not provide for additional “exceptions” to a favored population."

So basically he's claiming lane splitting was never legal (CA law doesn't say it is, but it doesn't, as every other state, explicitly say it isn't) and by posting the guidelines, CHP was granting it de facto legal status, thus making a law, which is beyond their power.

The logic breaks down at claiming it wasn't legal to begin with; a loophole many have glommed onto and tried to close in the past.

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Old 07-23-2014, 11:13 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
did you read all the documents enclosed in that pdf? The guy clearly believes that bikes think they are above the law:

having the guidelines removed is his opening salvo. then since its not specifically expressed as being legal, he will just rally to make illegal. It cant be that hard especially if there is nothing to overturn
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Excerpts from the petition:

[/B]So basically he's claiming lane splitting was never legal (CA law doesn't say it is, but it doesn't, as every other state, explicitly say it isn't) and by posting the guidelines, CHP was granting it de facto legal status, thus making a law, which is beyond their power.

The logic breaks down at claiming it wasn't legal to begin with; a loophole many have glommed onto and tried to close in the past.

[/SIZE][/FONT]
Thanks, I had not read his whole thesis.

I get it now, and will loudly state my support for reinstating the guidelines.

This asshole's aggression will not stand, man.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:20 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
This asshole's aggression will not stand, man.


all aboard!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnszilla
I was SO high, I could have hunted duck with a rake
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:31 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post


all aboard!
FWIW, the AMA's press release, and other conversations on this incident, would have been greatly improved if they had mentioned upfront the anti-splitting bias/agenda of the petitioner. Instead, they read as a response to a crank who made a fuss over a technicality in how something was approved for posting to a website - obscuring his true intent.

I don't think Mander has a strong case, but I do recognize the risk attendant to his petition, that it will morph into another all-out attack on lane-splitting practice in California. That can not be tolerated.
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:36 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
The guy clearly believes that bikes think they are above the law:
So the snap judgment I made upthread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaara View Post
bike-hating busybody
was accurate after all. (I hadn't read the petition yet.)
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Old 07-23-2014, 11:46 AM   #85
eatpasta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
FWIW, the AMA's press release, and other conversations on this incident, would have been greatly improved if they had mentioned upfront the anti-splitting bias/agenda of the petitioner. Instead, they read as a response to a crank who made a fuss over a technicality in how something was approved for posting to a website - obscuring his true intent.
well, we are just assuming that's his true intent and Im sure that AMA didnt want to open itself up to lawsuits from this guy or others for assuming things.
However, the handwriting is on the wall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnszilla
I was SO high, I could have hunted duck with a rake
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
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Old 07-23-2014, 01:28 PM   #86
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Now that his whole "Get a state job and become a millionaire" business is kaput after changes to the pension system....

he has to get in our business instead.

BTW, BARF link has a link to a petition for reinstatement.
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Old 07-23-2014, 01:36 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Rgconner View Post
Now that his whole "Get a state job and become a millionaire" business is kaput after changes to the pension system....

he has to get in our business instead.
I wonder how exactly he plans to monetize his opposition to lane-splitting. Will he create an Astroturf group called "Concerned California Families For Less Scary Roads For Our Children's Safer Future Safety" or something? Does he own a signature-gathering firm that would profit from some future ballot initiative to make us all get clutch claw?
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Old 07-23-2014, 01:43 PM   #88
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Plenty of busy bodies in CA do exactly that.

Ralph Nader being the godfather of making money in advocacy.

You can see him laying the groundwork:
"In addition, the car driver population sustains substantial mental stress from the continuing “lane weaving” antics of typical motorcycle drivers."


That is lawyer speak for "I will sue."
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Old 07-23-2014, 02:01 PM   #89
vaara OP
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Originally Posted by Rgconner View Post
You can see him laying the groundwork:
"In addition, the car driver population sustains substantial mental stress from the continuing “lane weaving” antics of typical motorcycle drivers."

That is lawyer speak for "I will sue."
However, the motorcycle rider population sustains OVERWHELMING mental stress from the continuing "driving like a complete moron" antics of typical car drivers.

Suit, meet Countersuit.
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Old 07-23-2014, 03:43 PM   #90
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just want to post some further thoughts about this...

the "guidelines" such as they were imo simply raised awareness that lane -splitting is safe and legal to do in California, and for motorist to understand that. the riding suggestions were just that. they read like some MSF instruction manual, and they were not law. you could not get a ticket for going faster then 10mph then the flow of traffic, or splitting cars moving faster then 30mph. if you are reckless that is determined otherwise. the LEO on scene will still make their own determination

the guidelines were simply suggestions for safe lane splitting. same as we have guidelines for safe lane changing and merging. it does not mean we are bound by law to it

also written into the "guidelines" were two c.v.c. items making it a criminal offense to open a door on a rider splitting lanes, or attempting to impede or block our progress in anyway. if this got thrown out with the guidelines, no way can i think its good to get rid of them

some see this as government overreach
some see it as the first step to further enforcement and regulation, and eventual ban on the practice
some see it as pro splitting and a win for those who would be harmed by a motorist trying to impede
some riders see it as unnecessary as we split all day long, anyway. leave government and law out of it

but what it really is imo is simply a public awareness tool. WE are on the road, lane splitting is LEGAL in California, and trying to block or injure us is a crime

i saw a CHP commercial on TV which said those things, specifically. how is that bad? because splitting is legal ONLY in California it is better to have the law on our side with a few tips and suggestions to appease the public then to have to fight off more wrongheaded "it should be illegal" suggestions from the clueless

imo the guidelines were simply to raise public awareness and try to help keep riders safe. it is not big brother looming in the shadows. and it did in fact make two specific actions by motorist illegal and a fully prosecutable offense

someone open a door on you and the insurance company does not know who to blame? after all you were riding between cars!! the c.v.c in the guidelines puts the responsibility squarely on the driver of the car to LOOK before they swing open doors. if they don't and hit us, its on THEM

also, if they use their vehicle to block or try to impede us, its a prosecutable violation. or you get a ticket or lose in court or w/e? i am not perry mason, here!

but i fail to see how these guidelines were bad for riders or unnecessary or anti-freedom or w/e the hell. it reads "pro rider" imo
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