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Old 07-24-2014, 03:23 PM   #1
catneck OP
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A better tug: GSA or V Strom 1000...

By better, I mean easier/cheaper.
I see the GSA as standard adv rig, but a few VStroms have popped up recently
Seems to me, the Suzuki is a better budget rig.
Am I right in the thought that a VStrom can use a car tire on the rear, and the BMW requires an expensive aftermarket conversion?
And on the front: Simple trail reducers at the axle vs custom lower tree?
Thoughts?
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Old 07-24-2014, 03:54 PM   #2
Strong Bad
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Cheaper is rarely better, and easier is rarely cheaper.

I have a GSA based rig and it was (and still is) VERY expensive to build.

I'm a firm believer in using car tires on all three corners of sidecar rigs. I'm also a firm believer in NOT mounting car tires on motorcycle rims.

The adapter for mounting a car wheel onto a BMW is simple and not expensive.

I think that adapting a car wheel to a Storm would be much more expensive as a you will need a completely new hub assy.

I think that rather than using some sort of trail reducing triple clamp or other means, one should simply use a leading link front end which not only will give you the proper trail for a well handling rig it will also allow for the use of a car wheel & tire.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:27 PM   #3
claude
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Strong Bad wrote:
"I'm a firm believer in using car tires on all three corners of sidecar rigs. I'm also a firm believer in NOT mounting car tires on motorcycle rims."

For sidecar use I have no issues with mounting car tires on motorcycle rims IF they fit properly. The exception is 15" rims are still a no no as has been discussed many times before. Ys, it has been done but it is definatley taking a chance.
Yes, I know the argument about car and motorcycle bead being different and al that but we have not seen issues with car tires on cycle rims. Here is some food for thought along these lines. (Keep in mind we are all kind of out of the box so to speak when it comes to sidecars.)
bead design ? side loads related to that? Hmmm.....car tires bad? Why? Bead design? There are side loads made on car tires or motorcycle tires when we are talking a non single track vehicle whether it be a trike or a sidecar. If th e concern is due to the cycle wheel not having the correct bead design then logic may say that we should run nothing but car tires all around on a sidecar rig on car rims. This is obviously crazy as what has been done for many many years under all kinds of situations has made a time proven statement that the cycle rims will do fine on sidecar rigs. Now.... do car tires of cycle tires typically have stiffer sidewalls? Which type of tire produces the larger slip angle? uh, I think the car tire. So, if the car tire is capable of a larger slip angle and if the motorcycle rim has been proven through the years to hold a cycle tire on when used on a sidecar outfit then what is the big deal about putting a more forgiving car tire as far as side loads go onto a rim that is proven to be okay? No need to answer just food for thought. To each his own and so be it. I can only speak from experience and a a little bit of out of the box time. Does logic prevail? Not always ...lol
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:32 PM   #4
B.E. Coyote
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I would think changing the gearing by using different sprockets would also be an advantage for the Strom.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:35 PM   #5
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.E. Coyote View Post
I would think changing the gearing by using different sprockets would also be an advantage for the Strom.
Yes....no doubt. And they do beg for a gear change.
A list of pros and cons for both bikes is interesting.
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:03 PM   #6
TouringDave
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Go the V Strom, the things pull like trains!

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Old 07-24-2014, 05:07 PM   #7
ProZac235
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I have a VStrom and if money wasn't an object I'd be on an R1200GS. IMO you get what you pay for and you shouldn't even be comparing the BMW to the VStrom.
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:09 PM   #8
Strong Bad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
Yes....no doubt. And they do beg for a gear change.
A list of pros and cons for both bikes is interesting.
My 2007 R1200GSA is geared WAAAAAAY too tall!! Especially 1st gear. I even swapped out my final drive for a 3:1 and the gearing is still stupid tall. I got caught in bumper to bumper traffic going into Santa Barbara and I was seriously afraid that I was going to smoke my clutch in the stop and go every 15 feet. Apparently there is another lower first geared tranny out there that will fit, but I simply haven't won that Lottery yet.

If there are larger rear sprockets made or smaller fronts made it would make great points for the Storm. Having custom sprockets made isn't always easy/cheap, but much more so than final drive gears!!
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:33 PM   #9
BWeber
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Freedom sidecar is installing a CSM sidecar on my Triumph Tiger Explorer now. Doing the car tire conversion and leading link front end with car tire.
I think the Triumph is a better bike than the BMW. It has a much better low gear ratio, more power, longer service intervals and is cheaper. In the scheme of things a couple thousand extra for a BMW would not affect a very expensive project much. Having owned several BMW's I am betting the Triumph is a better bike. As the bike had only 500 miles on it when I sent it to Claude the jury is still out.
With the sidecar load I'm planning on about 1/2 the miles per service interval.
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:34 PM   #10
BWeber
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Just checked and 1ST gear on the Explorer is 2.846:1.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:31 PM   #11
FR700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWeber View Post
Just checked and 1ST gear on the Explorer is 2.846:1.



Are you going to tell us what the final drive gearing is, and the O/D of the drive tyre ?
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Old 07-24-2014, 08:59 PM   #12
davebig
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The r1100/1150 series of BMW's may be the best of them gears from 31,32,33,34 and 37/11 three different 1150 transmissions and gsa trans have been built with the OD 6th for yet another alternative, valves, throttle bodies are easily owner serviced as are the final drives, the power abs can be removed, trail reduction is easy .The Suzuki needs a power commander, and their forks need race-tech help and the rear shock is a throw away, trail reduction is painful and ugly or get a leading link.What's not to love with the beemers ?
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:14 AM   #13
Hackpirate
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Quote:
The Suzuki needs a power commander, and their forks need race-tech help and the rear shock is a throw away, trail reduction is painful and ugly or get a leading link
All true. Plus the clutch basket will develope the dreaded "chudder". However, there is an available cure for this and is affordable.

With a gear ratio o 2:87 (16/46) vs stock of 2:41 (17/41) you will be in a very happy place in 6th gear. I've had zero clutch issues in 45K miles and that includes some back trails loaded down with passenger.

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Old 07-25-2014, 09:38 AM   #14
catneck OP
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Re: Trail reducer.
Am I missing something? The trail reducer on the Strom looks good to me. And easy.
 photo 01313_aWotAWOgp7A_600x450_zps8qzjzb5g.jpeg
Thanks for the reminder about the marshmallow suspension on the Suzuki, I have been off that bike for awhile and forgot about that.

catneck screwed with this post 07-25-2014 at 11:29 AM
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:11 PM   #15
Jimm Dandy
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I have 2 stroms

1 with a hack and 1 without... have car tires on both of em.. NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER.. only downside to a strom vs a GS that I can see is the lack of 12 volt power if yer a 12 volt power FREAK
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