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Old 07-28-2014, 05:28 PM   #31
Navy Chief
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Originally Posted by Human Ills View Post
We are doing ourselves a disservice by keeping the issue front and center. Let a perceived(instead of real) loss dissipate as opposed to giving it legs.
You may want to get involved with the Bay Area Riders, they have a petition running now about this perceived issue.
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:01 PM   #32
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Seriously, since I was a sheriff in CA and we were taught that if you get in an accident while violating traffic law YOU ARE at fault I'll stand by what I said. That section you referenced just means a citation won't be issued.
OK, we're talking about two different things, I guess.

Yes, I'd agree that if a (non-California) cop is zipping down between a line of stopped cars and runs into one, he'd be at fault, even if he's operating under an exemption from a lane splitting prohibition.

Are you legally allowed to do what you're doing?

Is a different question than:

Are you immune from blame for accidents resulting from the things you're doing?

I would suggest that the answer to the latter should rarely be "yes" in any case.
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:11 PM   #33
Human Ills
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You may want to get involved with the Bay Area Riders, they have a petition running now about this perceived issue.
I think it's a loser politically and the more we push, the more likely we'll face anti-splitting legislation. We most recently lost free bridge crossings.

The majority of people are very shortsighted and selfish.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:11 PM   #34
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I think it's a loser politically and the more we push, the more likely we'll face anti-splitting legislation. We most recently lost free bridge crossings.

The majority of people are very shortsighted and selfish.
I agree.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:03 PM   #35
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I think it's a loser politically and the more we push, the more likely we'll face anti-splitting legislation. We most recently lost free bridge crossings.

The majority of people are very shortsighted and selfish.
In fairness, why should we have free bridge crossings? HOV is one thing, Toll bridges are another.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:10 PM   #36
Human Ills
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In fairness, why should we have free bridge crossings? HOV is one thing, Toll bridges are another.
What are we offsetting via tolls when using a bridge? Why do area bridges charge by axle? Is the time lost for all the commuters behind me when I have to shut off my bike, put down my kickstand, take off my gloves, dig in my pocket for a 20, wait for my change and a receipt, put my change back in my pocket, put on my gloves, take the bike off the sidestand and start it and ride away, worth the 5 bones the bridge authority gets?

The bridge never knows a moto is on it.

We are putting our very lives at risk in order to ease congestion. Free toll and a thank you is warranted
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:58 PM   #37
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What are we offsetting via tolls when using a bridge? Why do area bridges charge by axle? Is the time lost for all the commuters behind me when I have to shut off my bike, put down my kickstand, take off my gloves, dig in my pocket for a 20, wait for my change and a receipt, put my change back in my pocket, put on my gloves, take the bike off the sidestand and start it and ride away, worth the 5 bones the bridge authority gets?

The bridge never knows a moto is on it.

We are putting our very lives at risk in order to ease congestion. Free toll and a thank you is warranted
Can't put it in neutral and not deal with the stand? I use a tank bag and it isn't that big a deal. The point is, it is still a toll crossing. Why should we get a free ride? We still ride motor vehicles. I don't put my life at risk to "ease congestion". I doubt that even splitting lanes reduces it that much. It does for us, and I enjoy having the ability. Splitting lanes and getting a free ride on a toll bridge are two different arguments as it is.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:12 PM   #38
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What are we offsetting via tolls when using a bridge? The bridge never knows a moto is on it.
Probably never knew a passenger car was on it either. Tolls are not intended to *only* offset the actual costs associated with the wear and deterioration caused directly by that vehicle on that crossing. If they were, they would be vanishingly small.

A bridge has a capital cost and a service life. There are maintenance and operation costs over that service life. Only a portion of those maintenance and operation costs are a direct result of wear and damage from traffic. A bridge with zero traffic, but maintained in operational status will still have operating and maintenance costs (corrosion control, for example). Over that service life there are only going to be X number of crossings. The total costs of the bridge have to be amortized over those X crossings. That's the basis for tolls (or should be, anyway) not how much pavement wear your vehicle caused that day.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:18 PM   #39
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Can't put it in neutral and not deal with the stand? I use a tank bag and it isn't that big a deal. The point is, it is still a toll crossing. Why should we get a free ride? We still ride motor vehicles. I don't put my life at risk to "ease congestion". I doubt that even splitting lanes reduces it that much. It does for us, and I enjoy having the ability. Splitting lanes and getting a free ride on a toll bridge are two different arguments as it is.
Yes, I could make it less of an inconvenience for other motorists, but in this specific case, why should I?
Why not use free bridge use as an incentive for people to get out of their massive vehicles and onto two wheels? It's all perspective, isn't it?

And the rest of the readers who would like to keep splitting right where it's at, see what we'd be dealing with politically? This is ostensibly a rider.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:52 PM   #40
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Yes, I could make it less of an inconvenience for other motorists, but in this specific case, why should I?
Why not use free bridge use as an incentive for people to get out of their massive vehicles and onto two wheels? It's all perspective, isn't it?

And the rest of the readers who would like to keep splitting right where it's at, see what we'd be dealing with politically? This is ostensibly a rider.
Incentive to get people onto two wheels? Not a good argument nor a good solution. So... then you'd have more people in more vehicles getting a free ride on toll bridges, not helping pay for the costs of said bridge and increasing congestion? How about more incentives to take transit? Incentives are already in place to reduce vehicles - they're called HOV lanes. Bridge tolls are lower (sometimes even free) for them as well as those with FASTRAK transponders. We get to ride in those as well, regardless of number of people on our vehicles. Most states, even those that do not allow for lane splitting, allow that.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:57 PM   #41
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Incentive to get people onto two wheels? Not a good argument nor a good solution. So... then you'd have more people in more vehicles getting a free ride on toll bridges, not helping pay for the costs of said bridge and increasing congestion? How about more incentives to take transit? Incentives are already in place to reduce vehicles - they're called HOV lanes. Bridge tolls are lower (sometimes even free) for them as well as those with FASTRAK transponders. We get to ride in those as well, regardless of number of people on our vehicles. Most states, even those that do not allow for lane splitting, allow that.
A 'rider'.

I am telling y'all, the climate is ripe to outlaw splitting in CA and the only thing which will come from more action is 'fairness' discussions such as this. Bad idea to fight at the moment.

Bye Michael
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:06 AM   #42
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A 'rider'.

I am telling y'all, the climate is ripe to outlaw splitting in CA and the only thing which will come from more action is 'fairness' discussions such as this. Bad idea to fight at the moment.

Bye Michael
So... I'm not a "rider" because I don't mind paying a toll for a toll bridge? Pulling money out of a bag isn't a hardship. If I was regularly crossing, I'd get a FASTRAK transponder and not have to worry about it (and be getting a discount). Never mind that is a completely different discussion than splitting lanes. Pick your battles. Whining about having to pay for a toll bridge won't get you anywhere.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:45 AM   #43
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The "lame title" was deliberate, I wanted to get some attention. I drive every day down Hwy 1 and I honestly believe that most drivers are aware of the situation, in my experience if they are awake (not a given) and they see you, they move over. I also think the CHP guidelines are very reasonable and should be taken into account in any incident. The kids who believe they are fireproof will learn one way or the other, hopefully only damaging themselves.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:00 AM   #44
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The suggestions are quite a bit on the conservative side. My goal is to be in and out of your blind spot quickly before you change your mind and I am in the wrong place (observing the next set of drivers) to see.
The only time I see motor cops holding to the 10/30 (I remember when LEOs were talking 15/35) is when they are actively scanning the vehicles for infractions.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:30 AM   #45
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As a personal rule I stick to the 15 mph difference and stop splitting around 45-50 mph, but regularly see guys flying through at 30-40 mph difference. Things happen to quickly at those speeds to react in the little bit of space you have.

On the toll bridge thing, all the Bay Area bridges were originally sold to the public as being toll free once the construction costs were covered. Then when the scum(politicians) started raiding the gas taxes to cover their pet giveaway programs they came back and asked for a raise on the tolls from 40 cents to $1. This was sold as a final and permanent increase. He scum then figured out how to get around the supposed cap in the proposition that gave them the $1 toll. I trust a politician as far as I can toss one. If they find a political advantage in ending lane splitting they'll try it. One thing that prevents it is the police unions(including CHP) have a strong lobbying effort in Sacramento against outlawing it.
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