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Old 07-23-2014, 06:12 PM   #91
Rgconner
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Those CVs were not thrown out, they apply to doing those things regardless of the vehicles involved, cars, motorcycles or bikes.

It was just putting the public on notice if you tried those things, you were going to be facing serious shit.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:30 AM   #92
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Does the CHP publish guidelines for any other aspect of driving? For example, maybe like driving in the rain ,or low-visibility situations? The point being that just like with lane-splitting or at any other time, you can be ticketed for not driving safely in the officer's estimation, even though what you're doing is otherwise legal.
Yours is a good question, ignored so the main posters can rail against the one they claim they is trolling them. LOL
Yes, that is a good question. Apparently the answer is yes, they do.

They publish a brochure fo non-regulatory tips and guidelines for rain fog and snow:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/community/pdf/RainFogSnow.pdf

They also have a page on their website with winter driving tips:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/winter_driving.html


One of them is a tip to carry an extra car key in your pocket to prevent locking yourself out. If would be quite a stretch to claim that this is "backdoor legislation" to force people to carry an extra key.

aalexander screwed with this post 07-28-2014 at 02:43 AM
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Old 07-28-2014, 05:08 AM   #93
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This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but there seems to be very widely held opinion that lane splitting in California is some sort of "grey area" or loophole, and is legal only because there's no specific law against it.

Well, yeah, that *is* what makes something legal; not having a law against it.

Here's the law in my state (Alaska):

Quote:
13 AAC 02.427. Driving motorcycles and motor-driven cycles on roadways laned for traffic
Quote:

(a) not directly relevant.



(b) No driver of a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle may overtake and pass another vehicle in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken. A driver of a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle may not drive between adjacent lanes or lines of traffic, or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.

That pretty clearly prohibits any kind of lane splitting or filtering. That's what makes it illegal.



California doesn't have any similar law which addresses that operation.



That makes it legal in CA, not just a "grey area".
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:06 AM   #94
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This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but there seems to be very widely held opinion that lane splitting in California is some sort of "grey area" or loophole, and is legal only because there's no specific law against it.

Well, yeah, that *is* what makes something legal; not having a law against it.

Here's the law in my state (Alaska):

[B]


That pretty clearly prohibits any kind of lane splitting or filtering. That's what makes it illegal.



California doesn't have any similar law which addresses that operation.



That makes it legal in CA, not just a "grey area".
I wish more people would understand this concept; if there is no law addressing it then it is legal. We do not have to write laws specifically outlining every possible legal action, it is simply not possible, and it is not how our legal system is structured.
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Old 07-28-2014, 02:32 PM   #95
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I just signed the petition to reinstate lane sharing guidelines. I also saved a ton of money by switching to Geico.

https://cqrcengage.com/amacycle/app/...gementId=55066
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:41 AM   #96
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I just signed the petition to reinstate lane sharing guidelines. I also saved a ton of money by switching to Geico.
everyone knows that
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:02 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by aalexander View Post
This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but there seems to be very widely held opinion that lane splitting in California is some sort of "grey area" or loophole, and is legal only because there's no specific law against it.

Well, yeah, that *is* what makes something legal; not having a law against it.

Here's the law in my state (Alaska):

[B]


That pretty clearly prohibits any kind of lane splitting or filtering. That's what makes it illegal.



California doesn't have any similar law which addresses that operation.



That makes it legal in CA, not just a "grey area".

I think the idea of it being a gray area comes from the fact that even though there isn't a statute or ordinance specifically making lane splitting illegal, there are other "catchall" statutes that could cover such behavior. (For example, a "reckless driving" ticket could well cover the act of riding between lanes)

Although CA is the only state where lane-splitting is generally considered legal and is tolerated, I'm fairly certain that it's not the only state that doesn't specifically prohibit lane-splitting. That's why there's a gray area, I think.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:30 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by SloMo228 View Post
I think the idea of it being a gray area comes from the fact that even though there isn't a statute or ordinance specifically making lane splitting illegal, there are other "catchall" statutes that could cover such behavior. (For example, a "reckless driving" ticket could well cover the act of riding between lanes)

Although CA is the only state where lane-splitting is generally considered legal and is tolerated, I'm fairly certain that it's not the only state that doesn't specifically prohibit lane-splitting. That's why there's a gray area, I think.
Your post is filled with waffling qualifiers. Here's what you need to know:

Lane-splitting in California is not illegal.

There's no mention of it in the vehicle code, there's no statute that references it. You cannot be cited for "lane-splitting" or "lane-sharing" or "filtering."

What is illegal in California, and what you can be cited for, is unsafe driving/riding. The distinction is up to the LEO that pulls you over.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:44 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Your post is filled with waffling qualifiers. Here's what you need to know:

Lane-splitting in California is not illegal.

There's no mention of it in the vehicle code, there's no statute that references it. You cannot be cited for "lane-splitting" or "lane-sharing" or "filtering."

What is illegal in California, and what you can be cited for, is unsafe driving/riding. The distinction is up to the LEO that pulls you over.
Now can we copy that model to the other 49 states so we can resemble the rest of the civilized world... (and maybe move to metric at the same time )
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:04 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by SloMo228 View Post
I think the idea of it being a gray area comes from the fact that even though there isn't a statute or ordinance specifically making lane splitting illegal, there are other "catchall" statutes that could cover such behavior. (For example, a "reckless driving" ticket could well cover the act of riding between lanes)


Although CA is the only state where lane-splitting is generally considered legal and is tolerated, I'm fairly certain that it's not the only state that doesn't specifically prohibit lane-splitting. That's why there's a gray area, I think.
I think that you are correct, in that there are states which do not have a law explicitly prohibiting lane splitting (not sure which ones, I just recall that from a website on lanesplitting) And that lane splitting is illegal because some other law is construed as prohibiting it (like, as you mention, reckless driving)
I get what you're saying, that it gets a little fuzzy when you're talking about interpretations not explicit prohibitions, but here's my take:

California does not have either:

A) a law which explicitly prohibits lanesplitting

or
b) a more general law which is currently construed as prohibiting lane splitting.

If neither exist, then it is legal, in black and white, not shades of grey.

It is conceivable that California could change their interpretation of a currently existing law to encompass prohibiting lanesplitting. In that case it would be illegal (if the interpretation change survived legal challenges) Until then, it's legal.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:11 PM   #101
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have we heard any updates from the biker community about this? I know the AMA released a statement but....
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:14 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Your post is filled with waffling qualifiers. Here's what you need to know:

Lane-splitting in California is not illegal.

There's no mention of it in the vehicle code, there's no statute that references it. You cannot be cited for "lane-splitting" or "lane-sharing" or "filtering."

What is illegal in California, and what you can be cited for, is unsafe driving/riding. The distinction is up to the LEO that pulls you over.
I completely agree with everything you said, but your final sentence says exactly what I was saying, whether you realize that or not. When it's up to the discretion of the officer on the scene, what is or isn't "legal" isn't as important as what behaviors are generally tolerated in the community. CA has a culture that is distinct from other US states in that regard. CA LEOs don't generally consider lane splitting to be inherently unsafe, so they don't write tickets for "unsafe riding" whenever they spot a rider splitting lanes, unless that rider is also riding like an asshat.

Now imagine a jurisdiction that, like CA, doesn't have a law specifically banning lane splitting, but unlike CA, does generally consider lane splitting to be inherently unsafe. Riders here can expect to be ticketed for splitting lanes, despite the fact that there is no law saying that they can't.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that there is a "gray area." Not that it is in any way unclear that lane splitting is illegal in CA - I fully agree with you that something that isn't illegal is legal - but that it could be effectively illegal depending on the whims of the officer that sees the rider splitting lanes.

So, at least as I see it, lane splitting in CA survives only because the CA law enforcement community (and perhaps the CA public in general) tolerate lane splitting and don't consider it inherently unsafe. So the removal of these CHP guidelines that give riders an idea of when their riding will cross the line from "safe" to "unsafe" would seem to hurt CA riders' ability to split lanes.

So, yes, splitting lanes in CA is legal. But that could effectively change without any modification to the state's laws at all, if CA LEOs and the public opinion turn against tolerance of lane splitting. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen, though.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:34 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by SloMo228 View Post

So, at least as I see it, lane splitting in CA survives only because the CA law enforcement community (and perhaps the CA public in general) tolerate lane splitting and don't consider it inherently unsafe. So the removal of these CHP guidelines that give riders an idea of when their riding will cross the line from "safe" to "unsafe" would seem to hurt CA riders' ability to split lanes.

So, yes, splitting lanes in CA is legal. But that could effectively change without any modification to the state's laws at all, if CA LEOs and the public opinion turn against tolerance of lane splitting. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen, though.
What we do have in our favor (in CA) is that we've been splitting lanes forever. Well, at least as long as I've been riding, which is about the same thin. I don't think it will change CA LEO's attitude towards it. The published guidelines reflected what we in the riding community already knew from conversations with LEO's.

As far as the general public, those that hated it before we had the guidelines, still hate it. The guidelines did raise public awareness that it was legal and hopefully that perception won't change.

I am afraid that some legislator will take this opportunity to attempt ramming a bill thru to make lane sharing illegal. As long as we can keep the CHP on our side, it shouldn't be hard to defeat. Fortunately, the CHP has always been our side on this issue.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:24 PM   #104
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I am afraid that some legislator will take this opportunity to attempt ramming a bill thru to make lane sharing illegal. As long as we can keep the CHP on our side, it shouldn't be hard to defeat. Fortunately, the CHP has always been our side on this issue.
same same. It would be a very interesting fight though. Bikers would put up massive, massive resistance to this and would find incredibly creative ways to protest.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:57 PM   #105
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I think that you are correct, in that there are states which do not have a law explicitly prohibiting lane splitting (not sure which ones, I just recall that from a website on lanesplitting)
Compare Oregon:
Quote:
814.240

Motorcycle or moped unlawful passing

(1) A motorcycle operator or moped operator commits the offense of motorcycle or moped unlawful passing in a lane with a vehicle if the operator does any of the following:
(a) Overtakes and passes in the same lane occupied by the vehicle the operator is overtaking, unless the vehicle being passed is a motorcycle or a moped.
(b) Operates a moped or motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.
or again Alaska:
Quote:
13 AAC 02.427. Driving motorcycles and motor-driven cycles on roadways laned for traffic

(b) No driver of a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle may overtake and pass another vehicle in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken. A driver of a motorcycle or motor-driven cycle may not drive between adjacent lanes or lines of traffic, or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles.
to California, which basically says "be in a lane (not on the shoulder) and don't be a douche".
Quote:
21658. Whenever any roadway has been divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic in one direction, the following rules apply:
(a) A vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practical entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until such movement can be made with reasonable safety.
I happen to know that most of the anti- movement in Oregon- particularly law enforcement- is against it only because of the difficulty in enforcing "don't be a douche". Give them a tool to smack down the assholes, and law enforcement buy-in would go up.
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