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Old 07-11-2013, 08:29 AM   #271
Camel ADV
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Originally Posted by Oso Blanco View Post
Good to hear your's worked out. After a new chain, tensioner and guides mine still sounds like a sewing machine
I figured something wasn't right with the chain swap as my motor wasn't any quieter and in fact had a new noise. When I ordered parts, I got 2 tensioners so I'd have a spare. I swapped the second new one in the other day and things got a whole lot quieter.

There had been a low dull knocking noise (new) after the swap. After much listening with the bike idling we ruled out bottom and top end. The bulk of the noise was on the left side. I think it was the chain bouncing off the guides and resonating. Anyway, the new spare tensioner did the trick
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:59 PM   #272
ebrabaek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso Blanco View Post
I figured something wasn't right with the chain swap as my motor wasn't any quieter and in fact had a new noise. When I ordered parts, I got 2 tensioners so I'd have a spare. I swapped the second new one in the other day and things got a whole lot quieter.

There had been a low dull knocking noise (new) after the swap. After much listening with the bike idling we ruled out bottom and top end. The bulk of the noise was on the left side. I think it was the chain bouncing off the guides and resonating. Anyway, the new spare tensioner did the trick
That is just crazy..... But as we had a failed $25K Pressurization controller on our aircraft.... the brand new replacement, did not work either.... third one was good though...... So no matter of what the part goes in...... It can be defective.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:20 PM   #273
bumbee800
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riveting chain master link

For those that have done the job, how are you riveting the master link? I have got the new master link and it is a solid pin design. I did not think you could mushroom a solid pin with out great force. I also got the pit posse cam chain breaker recommended for the job, but it does not seem to have any riveting functionality. Here is the tool I purchased

http://pitposse.com/poentichbrri.html

If any one has some more details around how the link was riveted, I would appreciate it.

thanks
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:09 PM   #274
MikeMike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbee800 View Post
For those that have done the job, how are you riveting the master link? I have got the new master link and it is a solid pin design. I did not think you could mushroom a solid pin with out great force. I also got the pit posse cam chain breaker recommended for the job, but it does not seem to have any riveting functionality. Here is the tool I purchased

http://pitposse.com/poentichbrri.html

If any one has some more details around how the link was riveted, I would appreciate it.

thanks
The product description of that chain breaker you posted the link to clearly states that one end is for pin removal and the other is for riveting. Usually, the master link will have a "soft" pin that is specific to it and will mushroom.
You might want to get someone to help you with the job.
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Old 07-12-2013, 09:16 PM   #275
bumbee800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post
The product description of that chain breaker you posted the link to clearly states that one end is for pin removal and the other is for riveting. Usually, the master link will have a "soft" pin that is specific to it and will mushroom.
You might want to get someone to help you with the job.
The description on the web site and the instructions on the back of the product do not jive. The instructions on the back said one end is for breaking the chain ie forcing the pin out and the other is for forcing the pin back in. It gives no instructions for actually riveting the end. I am quite familiar with riveting my drive chain and have done that process before so I am quite confident in doing the job my self, I just wanted clarification that this master link is indeed the riveting type instead of what is known as the press fit link. If some one who has done the job themselves, if they did the riveting process could you give some more detail about how you did it and what tools if any you used to do it.

thanks
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:50 AM   #276
Camel ADV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbee800 View Post
For those that have done the job, how are you riveting the master link? I have got the new master link and it is a solid pin design. I did not think you could mushroom a solid pin with out great force. I also got the pit posse cam chain breaker recommended for the job, but it does not seem to have any riveting functionality. Here is the tool I purchased

http://pitposse.com/poentichbrri.html

If any one has some more details around how the link was riveted, I would appreciate it.

thanks
It is a solid pin with no soft end. I was concerned with it too. It doesn't require much distortion to keep the side plate in place. It took much less force than I expected to mushroom the head.
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Old 07-13-2013, 05:32 AM   #277
Indy Unlimited
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Use a small punch and hammer to mushroom the pin ends while a buddy holds a metal block on the back side of the pin. Only need 0.005" mushroom to get the pin to stay in position
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:35 PM   #278
bumbee800
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Press fit or not

Are we sure this style of master link is not what they call a press fit design where there is enough interference between the pin and the outer plate that when pressed together it is designed to not require riveting. From doing some reading my understanding is that the master links that require riveting are distinguishable by the end of the pins having a slightly different (darker) color metal, where they have transitioned to a softer metal. Also they have dimples in the end where you are suppose to apply force to peen the heads over. These pins have no such distinguishing marks. Please read this thread where they discuss the same issues

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?to...941#msg1056941

They also mention that if it is a press fit design that trying to peen it could actually be worse than leaving at a press fit.
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:13 PM   #279
Olvi
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Originally Posted by chadams View Post
Now I'm getting excited as 82 RH 2015 has master links available
So I bought one (a K&L supply one) from http://www.z1enterprises.com
Since z1enterprises is a US company, I need to find some place to purchase one in Europe. So master link is supplied by K&L, right? I can find a lot of master links but they are for some Suzuki and Kawasaki models and they look totally different than chain in F8GS

Somewhere around I found one by D.I.D but I'm not able to find any images of that . I think I will order it and see what it appears to be.
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:52 PM   #280
der-Seppel
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Hey guys i am just replacing my Cam Chain right now with the master link method.
Is there an easy way to feed the chain through the engine without moving the crank?

I have split both chains and connected them so far.

Problem is I am on a trip ... don't have access to most tool
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:59 PM   #281
der-Seppel
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okay just read through the thread again and found this ...
now I just have to find out how to reset the engine timing(?) after I have done that ...

It is horrible when you have to do jobs like this on your own because you don't have the money to get it done by a shop but you don't have the skills that are required. It guess it is time to learn it :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indy Unlimited View Post
Make sure you remove the cam chain tensioner.
You need to break the cam chain and connect the old chain to the new one on one end.
Then while a buddy rotates the rear wheel very slowly you need to guide the new chain on and replace it.
Then rebreak the connection with the old chain and connect the new chain to itself it barely fits for the final connection that is why you need to pull the chain tensioner to get all the slack you can.
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:26 AM   #282
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Sorry to jump in right at the end...I by no means want to hijack this thread so please send me elsewhere if need be.

I'm looking for opinions from people much more knowledgeable than I am about these Rotax engines.

I've taken the following recording of my engine.

https://soundcloud.com/gourmettravel...st-2009-engine

It's an 09 F800St - 81,000km on the clock.

I'm concerned about that tapping similar to a sewing machine.

Does this sound like the noise from the Cam Chain that people are referring to in this thread or is it something else?

The other track i'm going down is possibly highlighted by JoelWisman.

JoelWisman described a number of different noises the engines make in the following thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=833910&page=2

There are three main noises.. the second of which is described as

Noise 2 is caused by incorrect clearances on the HLM big end bearing. This to my knowledge was only present on some early 2009 bikes though I sappose QC could fail and the problem could be introduced again. This was a loud lower end knock that was very detectable on a hot engine with hot oil. I'm sure higher weight oil will quiet it some but it will still explode at some point if this problem is present. On the positive side, when the HLM bearing fails the pieces tend to come out the forward and bottom parts of the engine which is preferred over the upper rear.

Noise 2 will be louder as oil gets thinner and is detectable as very low in the engine with a stethoscope. This noise is detectable through the full rev range though exhaust noise may drowned it out. The solution is replacement of the HLM bearing before the engine explodes.

Interested in people's thoughts... Thanks
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:11 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der-Seppel View Post
It is horrible when you have to do jobs like this on your own because you don't have the money to get it done by a shop but you don't have the skills that are required. It guess it is time to learn it :)
Necessity is the mother of invention. Good job on taking the bull by the horns and going for it.
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Old 11-05-2014, 08:20 PM   #284
MTrider16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GourmetTraveller View Post
I'm looking for opinions from people much more knowledgeable than I am about these Rotax engines.

I've taken the following recording of my engine.

https://soundcloud.com/gourmettravel...st-2009-engine

It's an 09 F800St - 81,000km on the clock.

Interested in people's thoughts... Thanks
I think the ST engine is slightly different than a GS engine, mainly the angle of the cylinders on the crankcase, and difference in valve train.

Your problem stays constant with the engine speed as you rev the engine, sometimes the cam noice will go quiet with some revs.

In the interest of checking the simple things first, have you checked the valves clearence lately? It sounds more like valve noise to me.
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:32 PM   #285
GourmetTraveller
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Originally Posted by MTrider16 View Post
In the interest of checking the simple things first, have you checked the valves clearence lately? It sounds more like valve noise to me.
In good news.. this is something that I've checked and there were no issues.

But it is VERY comforting to hear that the sound goes away at some revs..

When I'm on the bike I can hear the ticking from 0 ~ 4000RPM but then it will quieten off before coming back around the 5000 mark and continues through the range.

Maybe this fix is something I should try on my ST?
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