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Old 04-11-2008, 12:35 PM   #1
jakewojo OP
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Wicked VW Hack?

I was looking for some opinions as to the viability of taking an Ural hack and dropping in a VW diesel or gas engine. I have always wanted a military style hack but I don’t like the reliability/parts availability for the Urals/CJ’s. I was thinking about buying the kit w/o the engine from the Cleveland Ural dealer (heard some good and bad stories about this character). I know it will be a pain to mount the engine but other than that does anyone see any big issues with the drive train, is the gear box going to be an issue, etc. Also, is the gear box going to be a severely limiting factor as far as speed, torque, etc.? Would I be better off buying a wiring harness for the VW or do you think that the stock Ural wiring harness could be bastardized into taking the VW engine? The guy sells a setup complete with a VW engine but wants a little more than I want to pay. I think that this could be done on a budget an a few trips to the local salvage yard. Any suggestions and opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:45 PM   #2
MooseKiller
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I have no information on how to do it, but rather the evidence that it can be done... Unfortunately I am not sure who owns this hack, but with a little poking around (perhaps posting in the Alaska regional forum), I am sure one way or another you can be put in contact with the owner.

I believe that this is a German 3 cyl diesel engine wedged in this rig... Good luck with your quest, and let us know how it goes!



Edit:

Scrounged through more pix, and I found this. Pete Marsh is the owner. The Ural dealer in Anchorage can direct you him... It is a German diesel engine...

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Old 04-11-2008, 01:59 PM   #3
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126mpg!!

A couple of weekends ago I rode w/ the KLR guys & the Patrol went through reserve and completely dry at 120 miles.
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:47 PM   #4
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Eek Pic from old school thread

This bike rocks!
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Walkin' Dude screwed with this post 12-01-2008 at 11:06 AM
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Old 04-11-2008, 03:40 PM   #5
motogon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MooseKiller
I have no information on how to do it, but rather the evidence that it can be done... Unfortunately I am not sure who owns this hack, but with a little poking around (perhaps posting in the Alaska regional forum), I am sure one way or another you can be put in contact with the owner.

I believe that this is a German 3 cyl diesel engine wedged in this rig... Good luck with your quest, and let us know how it goes!



Edit:

Scrounged through more pix, and I found this. Pete Marsh is the owner. The Ural dealer in Anchorage can direct you him... It is a German diesel engine...

WOW! Where I can get more info on this bike?
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Old 04-11-2008, 05:17 PM   #6
GaelicDog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakewojo
I was looking for some opinions as to the viability of taking an Ural hack and dropping in a VW diesel or gas engine. I have always wanted a military style hack but I don’t like the reliability/parts availability for the Urals/CJ’s. I was thinking about buying the kit w/o the engine from the Cleveland Ural dealer (heard some good and bad stories about this character). I know it will be a pain to mount the engine but other than that does anyone see any big issues with the drive train, is the gear box going to be an issue, etc. Also, is the gear box going to be a severely limiting factor as far as speed, torque, etc.? Would I be better off buying a wiring harness for the VW or do you think that the stock Ural wiring harness could be bastardized into taking the VW engine? The guy sells a setup complete with a VW engine but wants a little more than I want to pay. I think that this could be done on a budget an a few trips to the local salvage yard. Any suggestions and opinions would be greatly appreciated.

There is a guy that has them for sale on EBAY every once in awhile. I believe he is in the mid-west and is a Ural distributor.
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:13 PM   #7
Dave-O
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I've seen a couple up close, talked with owners etc., and know where a 3rd one is (I'm trying to get it myself )....all I can tell you 'for sure' is that the wiring harness is the least of your problems (very minimal)..not that any of the problems are insurmountable by someone with a bit of tooling and some patience. The frame must be lengthened 4" in front of the uprights under the seat. The bike trani, (preferably bmw, but a dnepr or ural MAY work, ..I wouldn't try) is used but one (trani input?) gear needed to be changed to get the engine rpms and gearing to work optimally... I'm not exactly sure where this gear is supposed to go... trani? engine?....the people were kind of vague on explaining, plus I'm not necessarily the sharpest stick in the woods.. There was a spacer/adapter plate that needed to be made and installed between engine and trani. Some amount of clutch and flywheel mixing and matching. Header pipes or exhaust manifolds needed to be made, I've seen them with both type setups. The intakes I've seen were all different and ranged from serving a single Solex to twin Webbers, intake manifolds were fabbed. You'll probably want to figure out how to get car tires on it too...as they put out a handful! Here's a link to what may be one of the 1st ones done..

http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/BMW-VW/index.htm
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Old 04-11-2008, 07:25 PM   #8
Jimbosidecar
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VW Hack?

I saw a Moto Guzzi powered by the same Hatz diesel down at Daytona this year. The owner reported it doesn't vibrate any worse than a Sportster. Here in China we have access to very reasonably priced new V-Twin Diesels that looks like to could be made to work in a motorcycle frame. I have a couple of people interested, but am waiting for a firm order before we begin the fabrication work necessary to make it work. Regds, Jim
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Old 04-12-2008, 02:14 AM   #9
oppozit
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Go to the vwmotorcycle yahoo group http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...guid=136586972 and you'll have more luck getting correct answers. Also try the various diesel motorcycle groups if you want to go that way.

The guy in Cleveland is Yuri, and he's no dealer, not even a Ural dealer. He imports parts and sells them as kit-bikes, highly illegal and the source of many problems. Look at Dneprheads for the story of his diesel bike. The purchaser kept the diesel and parted everything else out, since it was so bad.

The diesel pictured above is a Hatz twin-cylinder. Due to engine height and length, you'll be basically making a new frame. Since rpm maxes out at 3600 (65% lower than a Ural) you'll be doing some gearbox/FD mods. An aftermarket 3.20:1 FD gearset will be close.

Similar happens with the flat four VW engines. Standard redlines are quite low and need gearing modifications. On the BMW /2 conversions they modify the input shaft to fit a 30% higher gear.Post-'55 BMWs have a 3 shaft gearbox so no major problem (just some very accurate machining). Earlier BMWs (except for the R 75), Urals, Dneprs and CJ/XJs use a two shaft gearbox. You either get new transmission gears made up (Vlad Tureyev of Motoclub Pandor is a good bet - http://www.motopan.com.ua/foru/korobka_e.htm ) or a new FD gear, (try Warnke in Germany or Pandor) or a combination of both.

As to lengthening the frame, you don't have to. There is a way around that, though you will have to widen it by 100 mm (4"). Adaptors to suit the '55-69 BMW, kickstart only Ural and kickstart only Dnepr gearboxes are available from Webley (vwmotorcyle yahoo group). They could probably be modified to suit the E/S gearbox if a Ural E/S flywheel was used on the VW engine.

As to other engines try this list from the Wagnerscycle group.
"Going thru the list of engines I've seen fitted to Urals/Dneprs - Various BMW, pre-69 and post-69, Citroen 2CV, VW flat four, Subaru flat 4, ZAZ V4, Diahatsu triple diesel, Chinese V-twin diesel, Hatz diesel twin, OKA inline twin, Reliant four cylinder, Rover V8, Wartburg 2-stroke triple, Mazda rotary and Honda Golding. And I'm sure there are a lot more out there."
I've seen most of them.

Hope this helps.
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Old 04-13-2008, 04:28 AM   #10
vortexau
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Australian build called "the Mig":
Quote:
by Jason of the RMOA because it was the fastest thing he could think of to come out of Russia

http://mcmod.wattagan.com/Projects/index.php?p=3
Quote:
VW1200 engine and twin Disk ( Yamaha XS650 twin disk. Lugs simply welded to Ural steel fork sliders to carry calipers.)
. . .
The Gearbox Adapter is a ring of 1cm thick aluminium welded straight to the front of the gearbox. This is OK as the gearbox does not split either vertically or horizontally. The gears are removed through the front of the box.
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Old 04-14-2008, 09:18 AM   #11
jakewojo OP
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Thanks for all of the advise! This looks like it may be more of a pain in the ass than its worth. I may just have to keep this as a pipe project...at least until next winter!
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Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles, Bubba.... -HST

This motorcycle is simply too goddamn fast to ride at speed in any kind of normal road traffic unless you're ready to go straight down the centerline with your nuts on fire and a silent scream in your throat. -HST
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:21 PM   #12
GaelicDog
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Why doesn't anyone just find a wrecked 1150 or 1200 BMW and swap engines? The Ural is basically a BMW clone.
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GaelicDog screwed with this post 04-16-2008 at 04:16 AM
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Old 04-15-2008, 05:55 PM   #13
MooseKiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogon
WOW! Where I can get more info on this bike?
Classic Motorcycles and Urals of Alaska



6705 Rosewood, Anchorage, AK 99518
Phone: (907) 336-6833
Fax: (907) 336-6844
mickeysmuffler@alaska.net

Ask for Pete in regard to the diesel Ural... They are good guys...
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:35 PM   #14
oppozit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaelicDog
Why doesn't anyone just find a wrecked 1150 or 1200 BME and swap engines? The Ural is basically a BMW clone.
To start with, the engine in the oil heads IS the frame. Which means you'd have to work out a mounting system to attach it to a Ural frame. Then you'd have to replace the "clutch carrier" with a real flywheel. Then make up an adaptor plate to attach the gearbox to.

As to the Ural being a BMW clone - not really. BMW derived but very different. And probably appropriate as about the only original BMW was the 2-smoke Flink in 1922. Everything else is a copy of some other bike. The Helios - Douglas. The R 32 - ABC, FN and Indian. The R 75 - Zündapp. The /5 and later airheads - Dnepr or Zündapp. The K 100 - Ariel. The F 650 - Rotax. BMW - the great immitator.
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:05 AM   #15
muschelschubser
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Excuse me it's German again, but nice Pix!

http://ural-dnepr.net/wbb3/index.php...threadID=10391


and another one:

http://ural-dnepr.net/wbb3/index.php...threadID=11168

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