ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > The Garage
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-10-2008, 11:44 PM   #91
Phang
Adventurer
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Singapore
Oddometer: 48
My previous encounter with threadlocker resulted 2 snapped M5X14 stainless steel bolts.

It was a 2006 Kawasaki W400(a stroke down W650) cosmetic bevel cam cover fasteners.




Both the bolt snapped near to the bolt head when I removed the bevel cam cover to adjust the valve clearance at 12,000km (7,500miles) when the bike was one year old.





A closer look


I have tried vice grip, tapping with punch and hammer, butane torching and both the bolts don’t even budge by a degree. As if they are welded to the head.

Some mates suggested I drill it out with left hand thread bolt extractor and some suggested using an acetylene torch to heat up the bolts as my butane torch will never bring the temperature near to the melting point of the threadlocker.

These bolts are applied with some unknown threadlocker in the factory and I have ordered the original bolts from Kawasaki. As you can see, some kind of yellowish threadlocker is pre-applied to the bolts and the strength of the threadlocker is unknown.



According to the service manual, the tightening torque for these bolts is merely 3.9Nm (35in-lb). I am now riding the bike without the “clamp shell” cover fitted and 2 broken bolts planted on the head.

And now…

My recent acquired 2002 R1150R need a rear brake disc (rotor) replacement as the previous owner wear it down beyond the minimum thickness. The brake disc is secured by five M8x20 bolts with high strength Loctite 2701 (oh no, not again). I have ordered a new rotor, new rotor bolts and ready to give it a go but haunted by my previous encounter and I guess I should ask the experts here before I pick up my tool and snap all the five rotor bolts of my beeemer








Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2008, 07:51 PM   #92
porterdog
untitled
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Detroit (Rock City!)
Oddometer: 251
Heat. In all your cases... heat.

Agree that the propane (butane?) torch may not get you where you need to be. Try MAPP gas maybe, but fer fooks sake be careful.

Those busted ones- I'd use MAPP or Oxy/Acet and a really fooking tight pair of little ViceGrips.
porterdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2008, 08:06 PM   #93
KLboxeR
Back in the game again
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Chester County, PA
Oddometer: 3,650
Be very careful with any oxy/fuel setup. It won't take even a second to blow right through that sharp corner next to the bolt or one of those cooling fins. I'd try a regular propane torch first.
__________________
Chris
KLboxeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2008, 08:31 PM   #94
dirty_sanchez
Dirty_Sanchez
 
dirty_sanchez's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Louisiana, Baton Rouge
Oddometer: 2,852
Sorry for the delay in responding.

What we have here is a product called Dri-lock. It comes in several different strengths, and based on the Tech Data Sheet I just looked up, it behaves sort of like a blue medium strength liquid threadlocker.

But in this instance, it is way stronger than you need as you have already discovered.

This product is usually used by large manufacturers like GM, Ford, Honda, Kawasaki where they would buy a very large quantity of fasteners that meet their spec, then send them to a coatings house where the threadlocking or threadsealing product would be applied, and then returned to the mfg's. site.

Yep, I'd have to agree, heat is your friend, but heat up the area around the stud just enough to see that first whisp of smoke, and then try to loosen her up. I'd try one of those small butane torches a crack-head might use. Mapp gas does burn hotter than butane but you might have issues sourcing a mapp gas rig that has a small enough flame.

Drill out the center of the bolt, get a good grip with the easy-out, then heat it up.

Worst case scenario is that you'll have to drill straight down the center, and tap another hole into the head and I hope you don't have to take this route.

Dirty
__________________
No, really, the mustache means I love you.
dirty_sanchez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 10:01 AM   #95
Phang
Adventurer
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Singapore
Oddometer: 48
Thanks for the replies guys.

My mate from San Diego just smuggled some parts to Singapore for me, those are the stuff which I ordered from chicagobmw a while ago. (thanks Paul)

These are the new R1150R rear brake rotor bolts, the service manual call for Loctite 2701 on clean thread. Guess what, pre-applied threadlocker!

My question, should I scrape off this pre-applied threadlocker and apply the Loctite 2701 as specified in the manual when I change my rear brake rotor or I just skip the Loctite 2701 and torque them up… dry?



Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 10:24 AM   #96
dirty_sanchez
Dirty_Sanchez
 
dirty_sanchez's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Louisiana, Baton Rouge
Oddometer: 2,852
Use a razor blade to chase down the thread roots to remove the yellow dri-lock.

Here in the US, we don't have 2701 threadlocker, but I can only imagine you'll use a high temp red threadlocker given the extreme heat that rotor will experience.

Dirty
__________________
No, really, the mustache means I love you.
dirty_sanchez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 01:55 PM   #97
JesperXT
XT 550 Rider!
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Oddometer: 72
Question

Does Loctite require pressure to cure? If I understand the following correct, then no:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez
Anaerobic chemistries cure to a hard thermoset plastic when in the presence of active metals (rusts, tarnishes, corrodes, or holds a magnet) when air is removed
The magnetron covers on all CZ 175's I've seen are bent out of shape from being mounted to tight. I thought about bending it back into shape and then just giving the threads a bit of red Loctite and not tightening the screw more than fingertight. Would it stay in place? (Might use blue Loctite, since I'd rather avoid having to use heat in this place, and there really isn't much stress except for the rumble of the mighty 172 cc two-stroke thunder...

JesperXT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 04:25 PM   #98
dirty_sanchez
Dirty_Sanchez
 
dirty_sanchez's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Louisiana, Baton Rouge
Oddometer: 2,852
Anaerobic threadlockers, sealants, gasket eliminators, and retaining compounds all cure in the of air while in contact with active metals.

Pressure does not influence the curing of the products at all.

I'd use a blue threadlocker in the application on that hot rod CZ.

Post up a photo of that trusty steed if you can.

Dirty
__________________
No, really, the mustache means I love you.
dirty_sanchez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 12:49 AM   #99
JesperXT
XT 550 Rider!
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Oddometer: 72
CZ 175 Sport Roadster. This one picked up yesterday in Germany. Been used by the borderpolice, hence the green paint over the original yellow:

Got another one in boxes with 5000 original kilometers on the clock. Made by CZ (
Ceska Zbrojowka = Czechoslovakian Weapon Factory) in the early seventies... On will be restored to look original and the other will become a commie-caféracer
JesperXT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 05:22 AM   #100
dirty_sanchez
Dirty_Sanchez
 
dirty_sanchez's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Louisiana, Baton Rouge
Oddometer: 2,852
Nifty looking old two banger.

Thanks for posting the photo.

Dirty
__________________
No, really, the mustache means I love you.
dirty_sanchez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:39 AM   #101
IDScarecrow
Beastly Adventurer
 
IDScarecrow's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: PNW Inland Empire
Oddometer: 1,323
Dirty_Sanchez, I hope you get paid extra for this, or at least you do it on work time. You are the best damn factory rep I have heard of. I always read this thread, and you have the most thorough, correct, no-bullshit answers around. Thanks for the education in Loctite.
__________________
"Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional."


IDScarecrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 11:13 AM   #102
BC in Mid TN
Gnarly Adventurer
 
BC in Mid TN's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Charlotte TN
Oddometer: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDScarecrow
Dirty_Sanchez, I hope you get paid extra for this, or at least you do it on work time. You are the best damn factory rep I have heard of. I always read this thread, and you have the most thorough, correct, no-bullshit answers around. Thanks for the education in Loctite.
+1 Thanks a bunch
__________________
BC
2007 KTM 950 SE
2006 KTM 525 EXC plated
2006 Triumph Scrambler
BC in Mid TN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 04:49 PM   #103
dirty_sanchez
Dirty_Sanchez
 
dirty_sanchez's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2006
Location: Louisiana, Baton Rouge
Oddometer: 2,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDScarecrow
Dirty_Sanchez, I hope you get paid extra for this, or at least you do it on work time. You are the best damn factory rep I have heard of. I always read this thread, and you have the most thorough, correct, no-bullshit answers around. Thanks for the education in Loctite.
Well, thank you.

I treat all of you inmates just like I treat my customers-no B.S. or hype, and if I can fix a problem or fix a problem before it becomes a problem, I'll make a suggestion, and if I don't have a fix in my bag of tricks, I'll tell you that as well.

With all of us here on the board, we have so many resources to draw from for all sorts of situations, predicaments, and scenarios, someone from the collective has an answer, and I just happen to really dig what I do for a living and don't mind helping out.

Dirty
__________________
No, really, the mustache means I love you.

dirty_sanchez screwed with this post 05-13-2008 at 04:54 PM
dirty_sanchez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 06:13 PM   #104
ibafran
villagidiot
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: chicagoland
Oddometer: 1,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by IDScarecrow
Dirty_Sanchez, I hope you get paid extra for this, or at least you do it on work time. You are the best damn factory rep I have heard of. I always read this thread, and you have the most thorough, correct, no-bullshit answers around. Thanks for the education in Loctite.
+ another one. that makes 3 so far. I never miss your posts.
__________________
"beware the grease mud. for therein lies the skid demon."-memory from an old Honda safety pamphlet
ibafran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2008, 10:28 PM   #105
Phang
Adventurer
 
Phang's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Singapore
Oddometer: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez
Well, thank you.

I treat all of you inmates just like I treat my customers-no B.S. or hype, and if I can fix a problem or fix a problem before it becomes a problem, I'll make a suggestion, and if I don't have a fix in my bag of tricks, I'll tell you that as well.

With all of us here on the board, we have so many resources to draw from for all sorts of situations, predicaments, and scenarios, someone from the collective has an answer, and I just happen to really dig what I do for a living and don't mind helping out.

Dirty
Well said dirty!



I understand liquid threadlocker cure while in contact with active metals. What about Dri-lock?

Does it go through some form of curing process when we fastening Dri-lock applied bolts?

Phang screwed with this post 05-14-2008 at 10:46 PM
Phang is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014