HARLEY Vs VICTORY???

[Ginger Beard]

Originally Posted by doug s.

i would definitely recommend the victory. simply because h-d is one effed up company. i would awoid them like the plague. h-d could go ahead and shut down buell even tho they had a buyer chomping at the bit to purchse buell.

i refuse to support stupidity and poor management w/my money. the way h-d is going, they will have to start manufacturing wheel chairs, hosptial beds and electric carts to cater to the only market that they care about and that cares about them.

ymmv,

doug s.

Most of the people that ride them down here tend to be young professionals.

[nwdub]

Originally Posted by doug s.

i would definitely recommend the victory. simply because h-d is one effed up company. i would awoid them like the plague. h-d could go ahead and shut down buell even tho they had a buyer chomping at the bit to purchse buell.

i refuse to support stupidity and poor management w/my money. the way h-d is going, they will have to start manufacturing wheel chairs, hosptial beds and electric carts to cater to the only market that they care about and that cares about them.

ymmv,

doug s.

they already make golf carts and they're starting to license their name with cheap Chinese products

[Berto]

Originally Posted by doug s.

i would definitely recommend the victory. simply because h-d is one effed up company. i would awoid them like the plague. h-d could go ahead and shut down buell even tho they had a buyer chomping at the bit to purchse buell.

i refuse to support stupidity and poor management w/my money. the way h-d is going, they will have to start manufacturing wheel chairs, hosptial beds and electric carts to cater to the only market that they care about and that cares about them.

ymmv,

doug s.

Harley-Davidson is the market leader among Core Customers (Caucasian men 35+) in the U.S. on-road 651cc+ motorcycle market. Based on national R.L. Polk & Co. motorcycle registrations 2006 through 2011.

Harley-Davidson sells more motorcycles to young adults 18-34. Harley-Davidson captured the all displacement (all cc) market leader position with the young adult 18-34 segment in 2008, and expanded this leadership position in 2009 to 2011. All displacement motorcycles include on-road performance, touring, custom and standard motorcycles of all engine sizes. Based on national R.L. Polk & Co. motorcycle registrations 2006 through 2011.


Harley-Davidson is relevant to new generations
In 2011, Harley-Davidson sold more new motorcycles to today's Millennial generation young adults in the U.S. than it did when the Baby Boomers generation (today's "Core Customers") was 18-34 (1988). Based on internal Company demographics and/or studies.

Dark Custom™ Motorcycles resonate with young adults
Purchasers of new Harley-Davidson Dark Custom™ motorcycles contain a higher percentage of young adult men and women age 18-34 than any Harley-Davidson family of motorcycles. Based on national R.L. Polk & Co. motorcycle registrations 2006 through 2011.
Harley-Davidson is the market leader among women (Caucasian women 35+) in the U.S. on-road 651cc+ motorcycle market. Based on national R.L. Polk & Co. motorcycle registrations 2006 through 2011.
Harley-Davidson is the market leader among African-American men and women 35+ in the U.S. on-road 651cc+ motorcycle market. Based on national R.L. Polk & Co. motorcycle registrations 2006 through 2011.


Harley-Davidson is the market leader among Hispanic men and women 35+ in the U.S. on-road 651cc+ motorcycle market. Based on national R.L. Polk & Co. motorcycle registrations 2006 through 2011.

They are really fucking it up

[doug s.]

harley's average customer is age 49, highest in the industry. do a websearch on h-d - every single article, financial and otherwise, even those who say h-d is doing ok presently - says age demographics will present a real challenge to h-d's long term wiability.

any company that can deliberately cut off its nose to spite its face, the way h-d did w/its treatment of buell, deserves no support, imo. h-d never marketed buell properly, never gave erik the resources he asked for, and then, when there was a willing buyer, instead of making some money off the situation, they lost more money and shut them down. and buell could have drawn in younger buyers, something h-d sorely needs.

h-d's are primarily sold to poseurs; folks that actually like to ride motorcycles shop elsewhere. yes, there are exceptions, but this statement is generally true.

doug s.

[BCC]

Originally Posted by doug s.

harley's average customer is age 49, highest in the industry. do a websearch on h-d - every single article, financial and otherwise, even those who say h-d is doing ok presently - says age demographics will present a real challenge to h-d's long term wiability.

any company that can deliberately cut off its nose to spite its face, the way h-d did w/its treatment of buell, deserves no support, imo. h-d never marketed buell properly, never gave erik the resources he asked for, and then, when there was a willing buyer, instead of making some money off the situation, they lost more money and shut them down. and buell could have drawn in younger buyers, something h-d sorely needs.

h-d's are primarily sold to poseurs; folks that actually like to ride motorcycles shop elsewhere. yes, there are exceptions, but this statement is generally true.

doug s.

It's just business, nothing personal.

Not core to their business, not a significant market share, not a good return on investment, shared infrastructure. But a competitor if spun off. Shutting it down was logical, rather than getting pennies on the dollar.

Too bad, though.

[doug s.]

Originally Posted by BCC

It's just business, nothing personal.

Not core to their business, not a significant market share, not a good return on investment, shared infrastructure. But a competitor if spun off. Shutting it down was logical, rather than getting pennies on the dollar.

Too bad, though.

no, buell would not have been a competitor. but bikes like buells should be competitors - if h-d were wanting to increase its demographics....

buell would have had a good roi, a good market share, if properly marketed. but, as you say, it was not core to their biz. which is why h-d is short-sited - they need to expand their core.

buell was shut down by h-d cuz there was a grudge between erik and folks at h-d, and h-d didn't wanna be embarrassed when buell would become successful when properly supported. but, ebr will embarrass h-d anyway, now it will simply take a coupla years longer...

doug s.

[OldPete]

For those interested ans so inclined, an hour with Erik Buell.
Well worth it IMO.
If I was 30 years younger and had $40k........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qou7EovDH9M

[nwdub]

Like most of america, the point of business is "fuck the future, do what makes money in the short term. I'll be retired before the chickens come home to roost."

[EetsOK]

Originally Posted by nwdub

Like most of america, the point of business is "fuck the future, do what makes money in the short term. I'll be retired before the chickens come home to roost."

Sadly so true.
It ain't wokring out so shit out for everybody though, is it?

[CdnGS]

Originally Posted by doug s.

no, buell would not have been a competitor. but bikes like buells should be competitors - if h-d were wanting to increase its demographics....

buell would have had a good roi, a good market share, if properly marketed. but, as you say, it was not core to their biz. which is why h-d is short-sited - they need to expand their core.

buell was shut down by h-d cuz there was a grudge between erik and folks at h-d, and h-d didn't wanna be embarrassed when buell would become successful when properly supported. but, ebr will embarrass h-d anyway, now it will simply take a coupla years longer...

doug s.

I tend to agree. As a separate entity Buell would have competed against other sports oriented bikes (mainly Japanese) and not against HD.

[OldPete]

IIRC,
A manufacturer of of road vehicles must provide service parts for 10 years even once production of that vehicle has stopped.
Doubt Eric could do that if he owned Buell. He even lost that name to HD, hence EBR was coined. More power to him.


BTW, if a smaller countershaft sproket is installed on a Victory steel framed bike,
one of the Buell belts brings the rear axel adjustment back to the front of its adjustment slot.
Not sure about the core framed bikes however.

[doug s.]

Originally Posted by OldPete

For those interested ans so inclined, an hour with Erik Buell.
Well worth it IMO.
If I was 30 years younger and had $40k........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qou7EovDH9M

it will take a bit longer, but erik will have more affordable street bikes in the not too distant future...

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/ta...-buell-racing/

http://www.cycleworld.com/tag/erik-buell-racing/
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/07/26/super-twins/

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee...y-to-race.html

doug s.

[doug s.]

Originally Posted by OldPete

IIRC,
A manufacturer of of road vehicles must provide service parts for 10 years even once production of that vehicle has stopped.
Doubt Eric could do that if he owned Buell. He even lost that name to HD, hence EBR was coined. More power to him.
Not sure about the core framed bikes however.

erik could have done it - if h-d had let him...

doug s.

[OldPete]

Yes! Formerly Hero Honda, now Hero Motorcycles of India is EBR's major sponsor/investor.

Hero is the largest builder of scooters in the world... http://www.heromotocorp.com/aboutus/thecompany

Victory set-up a few dealerships in India this past year btw.