For those who want further reading check out the following link http://www.largiader.com/articles/battery.html Some good facts there
I've been fighting battery gremlins for over a year. In fact, today I had to leave my 05 GS12 at work and catch a ride home. The past two days it would start quickly in the morning, but after sitting in the garage at work all day all I'd get is the dreaded click, click, click. The first day it acted dead but after about a dozen tries it started right up like nothing was wrong. The same situation today but no luck, just got tired of screwing with it and called road-side assistance to come pick it up (again). I'm confused, it acts like a dead battery but my gut instinct is telling me it's something more. I've been fighting this problem for 12 months now. I commute over 30 miles a day and the temps are just now getting in the 30's. The bike had the software update and is up to date on everything. I'm tired of dealing with this unreliable bike and am seriously considering going back to Honda.
1) is it heated night storage? 2) is the ride to work stop & go or freeway? 3) are you using a battery charger? Note that new big cube Honda's also have the same amount of parasitic load from the ECU that the beemers have. My feeling is that there is something wrong with the batteries that BMW is using on the new GS'S as we don't seem to encounter this on the 1150's - at least I have not heard much to that effect. I am most curious to learn more as electrical is my trade and business.
Have you checked to make sure the battery cables are tight? Including the one to the starter, and the ground cables? This definitely sounds like a loose cable problem to me. A bike with a bad battery wont go click click click several times, then suddenly have enough juice to start. Jim
Answers to your questions.. 1. Not a heated garage. 2. Freeway, but moderate amount of stop and go. 3. Yes, using the goofy BMW charger. I go through the moronic dance to get the charger to work but not sure if I always get the sequence correct. (I'm posting for Loki1200 as he cannot access this page from work)
I am wondering if the battery is getting properly recharged as you are saying a moderate stop and go (I am assuming the rpm is less than 2500 if averaged out, correct me if I'm wrong) I am also sceptical of the actual net effect of the charger - how many amps is it? Are you going directly to the battery or thru the power plug? The problem sounds like the battery is "on the edge" and is not getting fully recharged. This is from the Odyssey website regarding big twin bikes but pertains somwhat to BMWs also; "The old rule of thumb is that it takes 20 minutes of highway riding to recharge the battery for a single start. These larger engines require at least 40 minutes. These custom bikes generally are ridden more in town; short distances and doesnt receive the required ride time to get a full recharge on the battery. This sets up the scenario for the battery to be discharged more than it is charged and after a short time, sometimes-just days, the battery no longer starts the bike. Typical run-down battery voltages are less than 12 volts. Full charge battery voltage is 12.84 volts." What ever amp hours are taken out of the battery must be returned at a factor of 110%. If your charger is a trickle type (less than 2 amps) the best it can do is maintain the charge that exists keeping in mind that some of that is wasted keeping the ECU fed. To properly return a charge to your battery it should see 14.8-9v for at least 7-8 hours once a month. This is called bulk/equalize charging. My suggestion at this point is to remove the battery and give the proper recharge using a minimum 6A charger that is protected against overcharging. (Don't use the old Cambodian Tire battery boiler unless you watch it for overheating-unregulated chargers can cause thermal runaway) Then run the bike over several days and note the results. Let me know your findings.
Heres my battery story. Riding yesterday in upstate NY. About 28F . New adv 12. I had on gerbings. socks,pants,jacket liner. gloves. widder vest and arm chaps.(my suit has no insulation and no room for any) Insert pansy ass jokes here: .....Anyway with my 720 amp alternater and brand new battery. I stopped to make a phone call. Turned off the bike then turned the key back on and stayed plugged in. For ten minutes and the battery died. Do you think this is normal ? Or do you think the battery wasn't fully charged? Hard to believe 720 amps won't keep up with those accessories AND the battery. Obviously wont be doing that again but I'm just wondering..Oh I forgot. Maybe the stock fogs were on too....But ten minutes?
How many amperes do your heated clothing and fog lights draw? A combined total of 15 or 20? That sounds to me like too much drain at 28F for your battery to still start your bike. BTW, even your 720 watt alternator doesn't work when the bike isn't running... I think most of the people having problems (myself included) ride regularly and don't discharge their batteries like you did. The theory that the battery is regularly in a moderate state of charge for several weeks and never gets fully charged would explain why it might not start when the temp drops and the starting load gets higher. On a side note, I found the solution to cold weather riding. I got so hot (physically and emotionally) jump starting my bike last week in 10F to 20F temps that I was toasty warm nearly all the way to work (30 minute ride). Kev.
that sounds pretty hard on the battery. And once you fully discharge a lead acid battery it is never the same.
look at the specs (I can't find 'em ain't got time to search and search) EVERY battery has a temp vs capacity curve the colder the battery (actually the electrolyte) the less capacity it has to put out amps. sometimes half of warmer temps another fact is that for a standard lead acid battery, it won't accept a charge at all below 32 degF. that's why if you have a car or truck with a voltmeter, you'll see an increase in the voltage from the voltage regulator, which has a thermister to increase output voltage as it gets colder. the extra voltage above the battery's voltage is actually passing current thru the battery and HEATING the electrolyte using the battery's internal resistance as a heater. when I was in cold climates, it was common to use a block heater, that keeps the oil warm and less viscous which reduces the load on the starter and battery. Takes less amps to spin a warm motor vs. a cold one. not as common was a battery heater which kept the battery warm, which INCREASES its output amps. a friend had an older truck that would spin (slowly) but never fire. the cold engine was dragging the battery voltage down so far the coil didn't have enough voltage to create a hot enough spark to fire the gas which doesn't atomize as well when IT'S cold. I installed a small 12vdc battery (old bike battery) with a blocking diode so the coil always had it's own source of 12vdc, while the main battery dropped while turning over. point to this long rambling post is this: a trickle charger probably won't deliver enough amps to warm the battery to allow it to take much of a charge. so what you're seeing is a "float" voltage on the battery, but not a full charge which can deliver the amps needed to start. stick a heater under the battery, if it's under a cover a 100w light bulb gives off pretty good heat. or find a charger that will deliver enough amps to really charge that cold battery. I'll look for some links to back this up as I usually do.
One comment and one question. Seems to me it would make sense to install a volt meter to our machines to keep an eye on things. If the small battey tender type chargers aren't getting the job done then what is the charger of choice? Thanks
Too much alternator power being diverted to loads and not getting to the battery! Battery capacity compromised by temperature. Remember also that 720 watts is full output at a typical rpm of around 4000+. The output is much lower at 2000-3000 and very low around Idle. The battery is only a "resevoir" for what the alternator puts out. You must become power smart.
Voltmeter makes good sense I have always had one on all my machines. Attached is a link to a good charger which I have tested and own one myself. http://www.accumate.com/pro/12v-7a-odyssey.htm It has a switch to compensate for the different types of batteries. Remember to make provisions for connecting directly to the battery on the canbus system.
That must have really sucked being on the side of the road cold like that with a dead battery. Unfortunitly the 720 watt alternator does not make any difference in this situation or really any situation because all it can do is keep the battery charged. Once the battery is charged the rest of the power is shunted away and wasted (which is quite a lot of power with a 720 watt alternator). The dinky 14 amp hour battery in both the GS's is to blame. Its just not a big enough battery to handle any load with the bike (Alternator) off. Especially in cold temps because a 14 amp hour battery becomes 10-11 amp hour. The only way to use any of the extra 120 watts of adventure alternator output is to run about 5 pairs of lights and a full complement of heated gear. I run 3 pairs of lights on my regular GS (600 watt alternator) with all kinds of heated stuff and monitor my battery with a meter. It always stays fully charged. That little dinky battery would stay charged with a 300 watt alternator and still run some farkles and lights. Here is an interesting note. Talking to my local BMW tech the other day and he told me that he had to order a replacement batteries for 2 R12GS's that did not have the dead battery software upgrade and therefore the batteries could not handle any normal load. The interesting thing is that the batteries are now 12 amp hour instead of 14 amp hour and they are no longer Yussca (sp?) batteries but some other brand. He showed them to me on his bench charging. I asked him if that was what was in the 07's and said he did not know. I wonder if this what they are putting in the 07's. :huh Any of you who are having problems may want to double check that they have 14 amp hour batteries and not 12 amp hour batteries.
Just made up a set of jumpers. I got battery charger size clips (the big ones) And 8 feet of 10 guage. Whatcha think? Should be good no? I was looking at a $30 bike battery they had there and was tempted to get it to leave in the top case(or sides when they are on) Nice feeling to have that with you. But Do I really want to lug that around with me all the time "in case". Decided no. I guess I'm just a little gun shy right now or still cold....whatever. I had a dead battery from leaving on the heated seat when I was away. That sucked. Took quite a while to find someone with cables to jump me. Well that won't happen any more cause everythiong is on a switched relay now and now I have my own cables. Only thing is the cables won't help in the middle of nowhere. Sure be a nice feeling to know you have a nice warm battery in the hotel with you with a battery tender jr. on it all night. I might run a connector off the battery and have it accessable near the edge of the seat. Then put a connector on one side of the cables and alligaters on the other. Be a better contact for the bike side anyway. Then just have to worry about the other guys dirty terminals. Or only park on the top of a big hill
I have a couple of things for you to try. First is if you ride in temps below 0 degrees C. change the oil to 5W30 or a light synth oil 5W whatever. If you don't you will be soon buying starters too That 10W50 is making the starter work harder too. Second, can you switch to a conventional lead acid battery on your R12? If you can do it! They perform much better in cold weather. I lost two Westco batterys each less than a year old on my old R11R both failed during the winter. And the winters here are balmy compared to yours. BTW the lead acid BMW replacements regularly last me 5 years
I never cease to be amazed by BMW a 720amp alternator is equivalent to a car's alternator, at least those of 10 years ago we're talking 60 amps!!!! and a 14 A/Hr battery? most car alternators are sized 125% of OEM load, so for a 60A alternator, it'd be on a car with a 48A normal load so yeah I can see a "...gerbings. socks,pants,jacket liner. gloves. widder vest and arm chaps" killing the battery in 10 minutes. lessee jacket liner = 77W socks = 27W pants = 44W gloves = 27W vest = 48W (max) arm chaps = 20W total 243W or 20.25A stock fogs? = 35Weach? = 70W 313W or 26.08A now your 14A/Hr battery is rated to deliver 14A for an hour before it drops below 10.5v. or 28A for 30 minutes. actual battery performance depends on state of charge, temperature, age, etc. just because your BMW has a car sized alternator doen't equal a car sized battery.
where is "here"? n00b? welcome, post pics of female tits, fetch beer etc but fill out yer damn profile for doG's sake
