I have road dust accumulating on the light oil film seeping out past the seal on the right side. Another advantage to riding dirt. Took a pic but proly won't make it over the mountains to the shop in Denver till spring. Many of the dirties here are mud, melting snow and ice. Maybe only month till hell freezes over... I will watch it closely till then. And... maybe by then, BMW will have an updated seal or other fix. I am not going to count on them even acknowledging there is a problem. Its under warantee till September. Bummer...
There seem to be an awful lot of whiners in G spot lately. A small leak on the outside of your FD and you think its about to blow? What other problems have you had
Hey Eric--you proably have all sorts of problems you can't even see because of the dirt--you really should wash that bike
I heard that some guy at the Ralley in Creel had his bike trucked back to Texas because he had a slight weep in the same seal. Wow, a little overkill, don't you think?
Well, actually, guys - not so fast! Don't pounce on Dirt Devil without knowing the issues. Read the article in this month's BMW MOA Owners News, analyzing failures at this year's Iron Butt Rally disaster. And "disaster" is a mild understatement! For those who did not follow it: at least 4 of the new-style final drives failed (plus one more on a K12GT immediately after the rally). This meant that about half of the R12GS's broke down due to FD failure - or, about a quarter of all BMW bikes with the new style drive. Very dismal! The old style drives that failed so often in the past would warn the rider (sometimes) by vibration and noise in the bearings, sometimes by sideways play. The failure mode for old drives was damage to main bearing race or to ball cage, which would bunch up the balls and jam the assembly, sometimes grinding down the housing cover. As a matter of fact, on my previous K12LT the drive ground down to death within 10 minutes of getting off an Interstate. Luckily I felt some vibration and slowed down. Yet, there was no fluid loss at all. The new drives (new style is used on K12GT and R12GS mainly, recognizable by the big hole through the housing) apparently fail differently: by running out of oil through a failed seal. The only warning prior to crash is oil seepage - if that is ignored, it is too late! So, Dirt Devil is right - once your new-style FD leaks oil, do not ride it. As Jim VB says, seal replacement is no big deal, but once you run without lubrication you are S.O.L. Hope this clears some misconceptions. Needless to say, I am trying to stay on top of the issues with that problem: I do own the two biggest culprits: a K12LT with the old-style drive and an R12GS with the new one. I guess I like to live dangerously...
Thanks for the responses. I can only assume that the seal is an external replacement underneith the black ring that then must be pried off? I just reviewed Jim's excellent video (though it plays poorly on my computer as per prior conversations with Jim) and I can see no internal way to get to it without a major disassembly that goes way beyond the refferenced 30 min. I did read Paul Glaves write up in the latest BMW Owners Magazine, and if his theory is correct, all the Iron Butt final drive problems were due to seal failures, and my assumption about replacing them is correct... then we would all be wise to carry an extra seal with us. What is the best way to replace it, i.e. removing the black ring, then the seal and then what to use to tap it in? Thanks again
I was also just reading in this months MOA magazine that all the 2007 Iron Butt FD failures in 1200's were caused by running the FD dry due to seal leeks. Unlike the older FD failures that were cause by the bearings failing. If that's the case then maybe there really aren't any design issues with the new 1200 FD just seal issues? If that's the case everyone should just take a peak at their FD each time they get on their bike to check for oil weeping and maybe FD failures will become a thing of the past.
Damn that would be good news...next logical question, why do the seals fail? Is there a better seal we can install now? When these seals fail is there any pattern to it? Do they "weep" oil or dump it?
I'm skeptical that most final drives are failing after loss of lubrication due to seal failure. IMO it takes alot more than some weeped oil that collects dust to drain enough oil to cause a lubrication level. Unless you have wet oil on the hub, spokes, & wheel I would think only a fraction of an ounce has leaked. It would be nice if FD failure were really just a seal issue. I just don't see it.
I do not think ALL of them are because of a seal leak, and certainly not just weeping, but I am inclined to think that the Iron Butt ones had the seal leak contribute to the early demise. They ride long and harder than most, and may not be looking at seal failures along the way, not that they should have to. I wish I could say that there was a defective seal issue, and maybe there is, but only BMW knows. Jim
So this begs the question: who has had a 12GS final drive fail that did not involve oil spilling out of the seal?
I have 36 thousand miles on my 05 12GS. The original FD failed with 20k on it. The replacement failed with 8k on it. Both FDs were replaced because they developed side play in the splined hub that inserts into the FD. This the part that is retained by the giant C-clip. I think my riding style has created some of the problem. I ride aggresively in the twisties, ride lots of wheelies,LD events, and bang down gravel roads at speed. I put a thousand miles on FD#2 after discovering it was sloppy. Dealer said it would hold:huh . Anyways they said I'll probably get it warrantied if it goes again. Also this is the best bike I have ever owned, and will replace this one with another when the time comes. Also lost the rear trans seal,and the rear shock blew out.
"I'm skeptical that most final drives are failing after loss of lubrication due to seal failure." I'm with JVB on this one - has anyone had one fail without it weeping first? I know Onewheelwunder says his failed at xx miles, then xx+yy miles, but he doesn't mention oil seeping past the seal, so I don't know what his situation was. However - this isn't the first time BMW has had seal failures. According to reports referencing that issue, the seals weren't from a bad batch, but the installation tool was nicking the seals at the factory. Also - there ain't much oil in the FD, and if you ride for x hours in the dark at rally speeds (and remember that these guys were probably all riding with 11 gallons of fuel on board), and your mind is on the rally and not on possible maintenance issues, a leaking seal could indeed lose enuf oil to cause the FD to fail before they were aware of a problem.
How about Tailbone, during the IBR? http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5273299&postcount=18
Well, he said the mechanic "checked the rear wheel ABS sensor and it was covered in burnt oil" but evidently oil wasn't pouring out of the seal or the mechanic wouldn't have been checking other areas of the bike for the issue. Not sure how the oil got "burnt" though, anyone have a guess?
I remember when everyone said "it's the cage that fails then the bearing" for the oilhead bikes. You can also imagine that when a bearing starts to go bad, the excess heat causes the seal to blow because the FD is not vented.
Mine started to leak last weekend. Rode back 300 miles took it to the dealer and was fixed in about 30 min. I have 20000 miles on 2006 gsa. It"s just a seal, replace and ride. DON'T PANIC......................................................