Just got back from an epic ride that had me on every road surface imaginable - started in Anchorage, went to Dawson, then did the Dempster into the Northwest Territories, then rode like a maniac to arrive in Northern New Mexico day before yesterday. One week ago today I woke up in a tent in the Northwest Territories... Ya, it was fast and furious and AMAZING. A trip report will be coming soon. But for now I wanted to get a few thoughts out about the F800. We rode every imaginable road surface, wet and dry... Dirt, mud, gravel, pavement, deep mud, slick mud, gravel with mud, dried rutty mud with soft spots. The bike was loaded with 36L Pelican cases and a lightly loaded Ortleib on top. The new TKC 80's are toast. The good - mechanically the bike did well. No issues, not even a flat, corners well and once you get used to how it moves in the mud and wet handled it all beautifully. The bike responded well to my coaxing it through the tough crap, the rains that lasted for hours, and the many, many miles. The standard seat is surprisingly comfortable with the Alaska Leather sheepskin I picked up in Anchorage. I didn't have monkey butt issues. I was surprised at this and very happy about it! But the bike has issues..... First, I'm glad I didn't have to use any of the many tube fixing supplies I have to carry and remove tires to fix tubes in the rain in the middle of nowhere. I was lucky. If the bike is really supposed to be an Adventure version of the 650 it needs tubeless tires. Second, and this requires a preface - Even if you spend most of your time on gravel if you have an adventure bike you use in adventures you will need to spend time on highways and interstates. If you like to travel the speed limit or a little over you will need to pass people. You will have those that take offense to your passing them and try to race you. You will have times where you need to go more than 90 mph to get away from these people. I had passed people and had to go up to a little over 90 mph and noticed at those speeds with knobbies and pelican cases that the bike experiences a very uncomfortable shimmy in the front end. As a test I pushed a little and decided I should never try to go over 95, ever, as the shimmy got worse the faster I would push it...... Ran into about 25 Harleys going under the speed limit who would not make room for us to pass a few at a time in the Yukon on pavement. Hit a very long straightaway and decided to pass. All was well until the front 3 decided to race.... I gave a little more throttle and hit 100 and knew something was very, very wrong. I looked down at my bike and time slowed down as the speed shimmy was EXTREME. We are talking shimmy bad enough to cause a crash if not handled properly - tank slapping at its worse. My traveling companion was wondering how to tell my mom about my death, it was that bad.... I didn't panic, I still had room and let off the throttle but it didn't recover... I gave a little throttle and nothing changed. So I braked, gently, just enough to change my physics and I started to straighten out. So I braked a little more and straightened out, gave it throttle and completed my pass. I don't want to test if it happens without knobbies or cases on board as it's not something I ever want to experience again. I was lucky I stayed calm and didn't do anything sudden or rash and was able to recover. I was lucky the road was so straight, clear, and open so I had room to recover. An adventure bike needs to be able to hit 90 without a shimmy. No questions, period. I had read people's issues with the frontend and wasn't sure if I agreed or not. I wholeheartedly do now. The frontend is not good enough - for highway driving it is downright dangerous. And yes, my suspension is adjusted for the load it was carrying. The bike, to be an adventure bike, needs a better frontend. Finally - the worst part of the bike. The tiny fuel tank. I carried an extra gallon and had to use it about 6 times. We made about 50% more stops than we would have due to having to fill my tank. In the middle of nowhere you won't be able to find a gas station every 200 miles. To be an Adventure bike the 800 NEEDS an extra 100 miles in its fuel range. Period. The 200 mile range is pathetic. I thought it would be fine. I figured no problem, you want to stop that often anyway. But you know what I learned? I can go 300 miles between stops. An adventure bike needs range. You shouldn't have to strap an extra gas tank on to go 300 miles. These three issues will have me selling my f800 and getting a 1200 gsa. I plan on many more epic adventures. My little f800 just isn't cut out for them without enough mods that will make it financially better to just get a 1200 gsa. For day trips, weekend trips without major miles, and so on, it is a GREAT bike. For epic adventure riding, it falls short. My trip report will have my opinions and the list of winners and losers for all the gear. We learned many, many lessons!!!! Cathy
+1 on the range issue. The shimmy is fixable. Frankly, I would run Tourances front and rear and accept the limitations in the dirt/gravel - they really are not that bad. Tubeless would be nice, but I am so adept at fixing flats in the field that it is not a real high priority for me. My GF is terrified of flatting with her 650GS (single) when she is out on her own (~175 miles between our places and half of it is sparsely traveled dirt). Nice writeup BTW. I am not sure the GSA is the way I would want to go, but I do not know of any other practical solution to the range issue.
I have found the same things that you've observed. The TKC's get real squirlly around 90. I did a trip to Maine and back on the original wings it came with and regularly cruised at "appreciably" higher speeds across the craton so I'm fairly positive its the tires. They actually have a warning not to run them that high but like you, I had to check for myself and like you, it was passing someone wide open on the highway. The fuel tank is also an issue but I'm sure its a compromise for weight savings that allows it to be a little nimbler than the big bike. The solution I came to (versus biggie sizing) was running a peg packer jerry can shelf on one of the rear pegs. It can give you another couple gallons and greatly expand your range. Its bailed me out several times, especially here in NW NM where gas stations can get a little thin.
I also ran a peg packer on the right hand side with a 1 gallon can. I was going to run 1 gallon on each side but when I started the install on the left it was clear I could not have a gas can that close to the exhaust. I installed it anyhow, thinking I could carry water on it but after install I tried to put it on the center stand and the peg packer interfered with the center stand so I removed it. I wish I had bought the 2 gallon size for the right side. Would have been nice to have that extra gallon on board. You still have to stop to add the fuel though, so having a bigger tank, for me at least, is still the better option. I personally think some of the shimmy is caused from the design of the bike. All the weight is back - the gas tank included. There just isn't enough weight on the front end to keep it balanced. I'm sure without knobbies or the cases it is more stable but I wouldn't do roads like the Dempster Highway without knobbies and for road trips you need gear and thus, the cases. The 800 is a GREAT bike. It just has some shortcomings. They are all fixable but the financial hit of the fixes, for me at least, justifies a 1200 gsa. -cw
Hard to design a bike to fit everyones idea of adventure. A loaded GSA on say.. The White rim trail may not be the best weapon, for instance. If you truly believe the problem is a rear weight bias and you need more gas, you can solve both problems with Touratech tanks for less money than a new bike.
Also Scott has a steering dampener now (not listed on website but can phone the order in) that should help with the head-shake.
Its not the design of the bike. Ive had it over many of those roads and at higher speeds. Id bet it was your TKC's and possibly the extra weight of the fuel on one side of the bike. Combination of both? When running TKC's on my VStrom they tended to get way out of balance when they wore! Im glad you kept your head and all went well on your trip.
The bike is actually weighted towards the front. I agree with everyone who has said it's your tires. I have mine up to 97 (gps verified) with zero issues. And yes, that was before I got the RallyeMoto steering damper. I run a TKC front and K60 rear so . . . I understand your issues with the fuel capacity, I really wish the bike had a practical 200-250 mile range. Hopefully, someone will come up with an auxillary tank that is not such a beast like the TT one. It would be a compromise though. I came from an "Adventurized" 1200GS and it was just too much bike in the dirt. Whenever I ride with guys on 1200's I can just play and have fun where they're working hard (especially in sand).
I agree with the sentiments regarding shimmy and TKC on the front. Extra weight on the back only aggravates the problem. I'm now running K60's F&R with no problems but will probably go back to the TKC on the front.
Multiple 600+ mile days back to back including a 750 from Anchorage to Whitehorse on EOL TKCs. I had a few passes to solid 90s with the knobs on loaded. I have had none of the shimmy that so many people keep complaining about. I am running dynabeads which I found to help but TKCs seem to wear craptasitically no matter what. My front tire had about 3/16" difference in height between the single center knobs and the dual center knobs. Terrible consistent vibration that felt like I was on a thumper again towards the end. I don't think I will ever run these again in spite of wonderful handling on/off road when newish. Something like the K60s are probably my next tires. The fuel tank is like a 5 year olds bladder... I carried two one gallons on the bottom of my Jesse bags. (see here) which I used countless times once I started north on 37a. I have had some snarky people thinking that the cans would get torn up or that I would be a nice fireball when I wrecked... well I have tested it (ask me how ) and the boxes take the hits with minor scuffs on the edges of the tanks. Still I have 8,000 miles into this trip and the bike has been good (in spite of the fact I am typing this from the Portland dealers showroom cause the bike is down for a water pump replacement).
I agree with the rest about tkc's.... You cant have it all with a knobbie that is good in loose stuff, great on pavement wet or dry and is a high speed tire. The gs is more than capable of high speed long distance runs as I've done many times.... She's stable at 120 mph - With tourances. For a couple hundred bucks you could ride over to woody's in Denver and get your wheels made into tubeless if thats what you think should be on an Adventure bike. Glad you've been problem free, enjoy the ride!
Not to hi jack the thread but has Woody put this out? Last I knew it was in the works but not available yet.
When I asked him about lacing up some new wheels he said that could be done too, for a modest charge. Might not have been talking about oem wheels.... Ask him.
I would be skeptical of anything short of cross spoking for tubeless tires. I've heard lots of horror stories. Maybe that is what Woody has in mind. I will also check on it for GF's 650 single.
I just brought my new 800GS home today in High winds and heavy rain. A typical first day with the new bike for me. So I read this thread with great excitement. I guess I knew what the range was on the bike was before I bought it so I'm ready for that one. I went cross country on a Quota and know what it's like to push a bike into town for gas. Also needed a refill from a 1150GS(Still owe that guy a beer)in the middle of nowhere. The 2.5 gallon can from Lowes was $8.00. I guess for $16.00 you could have two. Jettison them when you're done. Or use them for your lawn mower like I did. Or Pony up the extra $8K for the larger tank on the ADV. What were those Harley boys running tank wise and tire wise. Maybe we can learn something from them. My 950 Adventure had tubed tires on it also, so I guess I'm used to that. Maybe they should rename that the "950 Not Quite Adventure" A KLR which arguably could be called the most prolific adventure bike of all time, would not do well at sustained 90 mph speeds. It lacks tubeless tires, Not sure about the range. I guess Adventure means different things to different people. Might want to take a look at your steering head bearings, Loose or poorly torqued bearings can contribute to a squirrel in the front end. As well as tire pressure. Different horses for different courses. Me I find the big GS just too large to muscle around in the rough going.
yeah the packer needs to go on the non-exhaust side and I went with the larger sized can. For the record, the big trip I did on the Battlewings was fairly loaded and the terrifying wiggly wobblies on the TKC's was traveling pretty light and local. I'd never had any issues whatsoever with head shake with the smoother tires, loaded or not. Its super sandy around here and I'm glad to roll on the knobs for now, its a big improvement, but when they're toast by the end of the summer, I'm probably going to change to something a little less aggressive like the Heikendu's(sp?). You definitely need to go with the bike that makes you happy but for me the prospects of waking up a 1200 from a dirt nap was a whole lot less appealing of a thought than doing the same with the 800. Granted either would involve a lot of grunting and groaning but a couple hundred pounds would seem to make a pretty big difference. What stands out most to me about your report is the lack of mention of the windscreen. In the 11 traveling days and 6K I did last spring, that was what got my attention. The wind on that thing as absolutely abusive. I'm 5'9 so its not like I'm a lurch sticking way up over the shield. After day's end I felt I had been in a boxing match, and hadn't done well in it.
Cathy Sounds like a great trip. I agree with you regarding the fuel range, would be great to have more. I have not used the TKC but do have the K60's and have had absolutely no issue of balance at high speeds on the freeway loaded with panniers and a wolfman duffel. I was in a similar passing situation as you regarding people who take exception to being passed. The K60 front tire does washout earlier than my previous Mitas however and I am sure it would before the TKC also but everything is a compromise I guess. And just to add some fuel to the fire........I use Dynadeads :)
I know changing out a tube isnt that big a deal,recently I got a flat with a tube tired Triumph. 102 degrees out side,no shade. The wheel comes off,the tube gets changed,the wheel doesnt fit back on unless there are two people,one to spread the swingarm and hold the constantly falling out spacers in place,the caliper on this particular Triumph also falls out unless zip tied in place while changing tires. First time for me on this particular bike taking the wheel off and on. Better part of two hours and a fair amount of cussing. Tubeless? 10 minute fix and off you go. Ive always worked on my own bikes and changed my own tires,for a non mechanical person it would have been a ride and hike sort of day.
I agree the knobbies are part of the problem. But they were the best tire for the gravel/mud/what do you call this slippery dirt/mud like substance roads we spent part of the trip on. In a perfect world I would have carried my battlewings and changed them out after we ended the dirt part of the trip. As for the the windscreen. YES IT SUCKS ON THE HIGHWAY!!!!! I had the touratech spoiler which helped with the head buffeting in a dramatic fashion but the windscreen is too small for highway driving. It needs a better one for sure. I felt like I had the holy crap beat out of me after 850 miles of highway driving. My traveling companion on his 1200 gsa with giant fairings and big touring screen was ready for another set of miles. He laughed at me because I would tuck down so far he couldn't see my head and thought it was funny to see a bike that appeared to have a headless driver. It was nice on the dirt though...... If I were to keep the bike I would get a bigger screen though. Would be interesting to see how it helps with stability. I understand completely the shortcomings of the 1200. It is a BIG bike. It is a royal pain in the ass to pick up if you drop it. I know from experience, having had the fortunate opportunity to have one in my garage for a few weeks. BUT, I don't think the 800 or the 1200 is a dedicated dirt bike. The 1200 handles very well in gravel and mud and river crossings, as does the 800. If I keep my 800 it will need a bigger tank - I don't want to stop and fill up with spare gas cans, I want to just keep going (I'm insane and like to push myself until my bladder is about to burst). I want to go faster than 90 sometimes. I want a 20 minute puncture fix versus a 2 hour one....... This is just me - we are all different. If I were to fix these things on the 800 it would cost me a minimum of $5k, probably more like $6k to $7k. It would increase the weight of my 800 without an increase in horsepower. So, for me, having ridden both bikes, having seen how each performs in the same situation, and knowing I want to take on Africa and South America.... I think a 1200 is a better bike. We all have our different opinions. I will MISS my 800 - it has been a great bike..... Plus, for me, if I want to ride lots of single track I'm buying a smaller dirt bike..... Toys are fun, right?
OK, glad I wasn't the only one to feel the pain and your comments give you loads of street cred in my book. Like I said, I've more or less experienced and agree with everything you've noted. I actually ride with a guy on a 1200 with a aeroflow screen. He was thinking of selling it and buying an 800 so I swapped bikes with him recently about an hour from home. As I took off on the 12, I immediately was in wonderment about this absolutely serene experience of peacefulness looking through this giant plastic windscreen and thinking that it was going to be a very pleasant buzz back to Farmington. 5 minutes later, he was on the side of the road with his hand out demanding his bike back and proclaiming that the 800 wasn't his cup of tea. I totally understood but also more deeply understood his wariness of things like deep sand and gravel with the big pig. Toys are fun and so are the little bikes. That's why I've also got a recently acquired KLX 250S parked next to the 800 in the garage for closer in short radius thrashings that the 800 just is too much bike for.