Thinking about a single wall tent...should I?

i was camping in nc this weekend and met a couple of bmw riders with eureka zeus tents. http://www.eurekatent.com/zeus2classic.asp. they raved about them and said they packed very small. i liked the looks, but am worried about a tent with no fly...won't it tend to leak in prolonged rain? i usually carry a tarp with me, i guess i could stake it over the tent in a downpour to give me another layer... anybody use/like/dislike this tent? any comments on single wall vs double wall?

thanks

chan

I would stay away from them you can find double wall tents that are just a small and light.
Its not so much the rain penetrating them as it is condensation build up on the inside. Check out some of the reviews on different single wall tents like on here for example.

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Tents/

I have four tents, two are single wall. One is an 20 year old Marmot Taku that has gore-texed dacron and the other is a new Eureka Zeus 3LE. The old Taku wasn't vented too well, but I never had any real condensation problems because it is pretty dry where I usually camp. The Eureka is vented well enough that condensation hasn't been an issue at all. The three person Zeus 3LE packs just as small as our smaller two person Mountain Hardwear Hammerhead 2 with a full rainfly. If I lived in the Pacific Northwet or were going down to the rain forest I would not use a single wall tent. But for my purposes over the years, I just haven't encountered any problems in actual use.

They probably work fine, but I agree with above, you can do just as well. Cost is a wash as well - the added cost of a breathable waterproof single layer balances out having double the material for a fly.

As an example, I know exactly what the Euraka Zeus single layer is, my riding buddy has one. It folds into the exact same size as my REI quarterdome UL (if anything, my REI is even smaller - the folded dims they have on the website are very very generous, it actually stuffs even smaller awesome tent).

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...atalogId=40000008000&productId=47687600&vcat=

having a fly gives you more versatility on very hot buggy nights.

+1

cool dry weather is fine, raining is fine in most new single walls, but warm humid buggy nights are painful.

You could pack a mosquito net and sleep outside on those nights, but then you have completely negated the weight savings.

I've backpacked for years in CA & OR with only single-wall shelters. Bibler Eldo for snow camping/bike camping and TarpTent Squall the rest of the time. With any tent, single-wall or fly, condensation has to be managed. Usually in double-wall tent you manage it by simply having another layer between you and the rain fly. So it doesn't really manage condensation, it just keeps you from touching it. The secret to managing condensation is ventilation. If you can't ventilate the tent and you have moisture (dew point) then you're going to have condensation, it's just a matter of either wiping it down or letting it run down the sides of the rain fly. For backpacking, I won't carry the weight penalty of a dual-wall tent. For bike camping I don't see how it matters.

I have a 4 season SW, and it certainly does not pack as small as lighter tents with flys. But it has its advantages too!!!

just posted this in another thread I hope it's useful to you:

"All these talks about tents is cool...I've converted to a Tarp-Tent (http://www.ray-way.com/tarp-nettent/index.shtml) for a couple of reasons:

-Better ventilation during storms and less condensation inside.
-More living space. (106" long by 92" wide when pitched with a roof slope of 30º. U can see the illustraton of two full sleeping pads and loads of room for gear under the tarp.)
-Cheaper purchase price. (I made my own off the website above)
-Weighs less than two person tents that I've seen. (A two-person Ray-Way Tarp made of our 1.37 oz/yd2 silicone-nylon weighs 14.86 oz, plus 1.9 oz for the lineset, plus the seam-sealing. )
-Packs smaller. Here is pic of the two-person I just finished, Love it!



There are many manufacturers, but I decided to build my own tarp. Just throwing that out there for those looking to conserve space. I know I am because one day I'd like to do some MC campinng with a passenger where space is at a premium! :) I plan to add their Net-Tent ASAP mainly for bug protection. Wish me luck...seam sealing it in my living room now and will test it in PA on the 22nd and 23rd haha."

Ray looks like a cool dude, and DIY can certainly be fun.

But one wee comment: looks like you're SOL if you don't have either trees or soft ground into which to nail down the main support stakes/poles. No secret to backpackers that this type of shelter is lighter, but free-standing tents sure make life easier when you don't know exactly what type of terrain to expect at your next site.

I do hear you though, space is a premium when 2-up moto camping. But try this: most of the size in free-standing tents is the poles. They're light but bulky, but also impervious to the elements - Pack them seperately, or strap them to the top of a case! The tent and fly of my modern backpacking-grade setup (the REI one) will pack as small or smaller than your tarp, in any shape you like.

I bought an MSR Hubba Hubba. Not good for cold weather, but great in warmer to hot weather and hasn't leaked in some fairly heavy downpours. It was not cheap, AUD550.00, but rolls up to be very compact, weighs less than 2kg and can be erected in 3 minutes.

Yes u need to take some more care in pitching the tarp-tent, but I have titanium stakes, they go through anything and u stake down a regular tent anyway so I don't see a real different there. If there are no trees (I am on the East Coast, never had a problem. Me thinks u don't have a problem in good old Mass. either )

I could bring poles (yes I agree, packing them seperate than the tent is key) or just find a couple of sticks from the woods, no biggie. I still think I get a heck of a lot more space than a similarly packed 2person tent and the benefit of no superior ventilation is KEY! Generally speaking "two person" means:

"Cramped as hell for two people, u best be camping with your GF and not some smelly biker dude And good luck in getting your gear in there as well."

With the tarp I have more space than I know what to do with! Another benefit is I can pitch the tarp in rain, then crawl under and put down the ground cloth, then change wet clothes in rainy weather, I dig the concept thus far. We'll see on the 22nd. Right now I have it pitched in my living room getting seam sealed, my roommate is pissed! haha

Most of the times I've seen single-wall tents used have been in situations where it wasn't so much the threat of rain, as it was snow. Serious elevation. You don't want snow blowing underneath the fly and getting trapped between the tent and the fly. I think of true "mountaineering" when you get into single-walled tents.

I've used a tarptent in the Sierras for years. I've ridden out a couple of storms, too. Have never had trouble pitching it. Here's a pitch on mostly solid rock with very little sand. Oh, and I had a freak hail storm that night. I chuckled as heard my neighbors fumbling around in the storm putting up their rain fly.

Just depends on the humidity, nothing worse than your sleeping bag soaked in the morning from touching the insides of a single wall tent

I have an older Eureka Zeus 3 or 4 person, can't remember what they say. But its roomy for 2 and a dog and still packs small enough for paddling trips.

Its the only tent* I have used since I got it (I have several).


*I use a tarp for backpacking...

Does great in weather like this, cool and dry.


Anything is going to be damp inside when its just above freezing and rains for two days. Did amazingly well.

there are two types of single wall tents:
1) expensive mountaineering type tent that is meant for high altitude in snow/ice conditions. These are design to breath/vent in the dry cold high elevation mountain air, moisture will actually pass thru the tent wall. They work really well for what they were design for even better then a two wall tent. Cost $500+

2) cheap family type tent that you find at walmart or the like. These don't hold up as well they aren't meant to be snowed on or be in "bad weather". They simply don't breath at all, no moister will pass thru the tent wall so they need ventilation openings. Cost $20+

I use the second type of tent that I got for $20 at wally world.

humidity AND how you have the single-walled tent set-up. If you have "battened down the hatches" you will get wet from the condensation. Much better if you let her breathe (drafty yes, but no condensation build up).
[got caught in a vicious storm in Glacier NP backpacking this year --next to us was a nice backpacking newb couple with a brand new bitchin' $600 Bibler tent...they got wet that night because they had all the vents closed down]

I have a single wall tarp tent identical to Earthroamers (Probably weighs 1/2 of what my North Face Vortex 23 does). Nice ultralight backpacking tent-- lightweight and packs small but you give up convienence of the dual wall tents. Good tent if you are not going to spend a lot of time in the rain. Everything on it is designed to minimize weight (small zipper pulls, tiny teeth zippers, etc...not designed for durability.

Good converstion as I've spent the last two days seriously considering getting the Black Diamond HiLight single wall tent.

http://www.rei.com/product/801370?p...-F810-DF11-BAE3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA


Packs to 6" x 9" and weighs less than three pounds.

Pretty amazing for a cozy two person tent if you ask me!

You can even get a larger vestibule for extended stopovers if you want

My msr fling is single wall and has been fun the few times I have taken it out, interesting approach for single wall with lots of mesh sections.
Worth a look as they are cheap now since they are no longer made.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424658

The original poster lives in the South.

Unless he's going to be using it mostly where you guys who are recommending a single wall live, Colorado, Canada, Pacific Northwest, etc... He really needs a tent with a fly and a lot of mesh that uses clips to attach to the tent poles to maximize airflow. 80°F to 90°F in 80% to 90% humidity doesn't really work well with a single wall.