How Screwed am I?

I recently bought a sv1000 that was used as a track bike and have been piecing it back together slowly. One such thing that was not on the bike was a radiator. Well today when I was out tinkering with it I realized that there was what felt like ice in a small part of one of the cooling lines. It never crossed my mind that the bike had water wetter in it for racing. Now I bought it like this and its been cold for a while, so this isnt my fault. Anyways, I called the PO and casually asked what he had done to the cooling system before he put it away. He told me that he drained it and then removed the radiator because he is building a different bike.

So how screwed am I? He claims it has been drained but there obviously still must be some water in the engine that froze. My thought is that because its mostly empty the water could just expand it what ever direction it wants and it hopefully didnt mess anything up.

I seriously might cry if it did. Any advice on what I should do at this stage? I dont have a way of heating it up yet and I dont have a radiator to put on it yet. Please help.

What are you worried about? Water in the head freezing and expanding and warping the cylinders? I am no expert here but my guess is that if it was drained that there shouldn't be enough ice there to damage anything.

Yeah I am worried about it expanding in the engine and cracking things...he claims it was drained and I want to believe him, specially because there was no radiator so the system was open.

Only way to know for sure if the engine is done is to install a radiator or somehow close the system (connecting the radiator lines together), fill it with collant and do a pressure test.

I'd want to be able to say anything to help ease your mind, but honestly, anything said on this thread would be nothing more than speculation.

Drained can mean so many different things that it's not even funny, he could have just removed the radiator and left all the water that didn't come out after that, he could have actually used the two drain screws, etc. But, there is no way for any one of us to know.

I think you're over thinking it. People leave there's bikes in garages full of coolant all winter long in the great white north with no issues.

I know.....and that what I am looking for, is something to ease my mind a little. I am going home on spring break tonight and will get the stuff needed to attach my radiator and I guess I will go from there and pray that it didnt get messed up. Anyone else have any insight on this?

Full of coolant, not water wetter which freezes.

But I really do hope your right and I am just over thinking it.

Dude, don't worry about it. Hook up a radiator, fill it with coolant, and go.

I hope thats the case, still waiting for a temp sensor for my radiator so I can hook it up and try. I am finding it a little ironic that most people commenting are from warmer climates....its been bellow 10 degrees here all week during the day and well bellow zero at night.

Yes, but...worrying doesn't change a thing. It's either damaged or it's not. I'm betting on not. Fully accept the situation as it is, and take the next steps.

Touche

Thanks for the input

If the radiator was removed there should be no problem with freezing.
If you are concerned and have time to waste,lift the cylinder head covers and check the freeze plugs in the cylinder heads.
If a 'complete' full cooling system froze they would pop for sure.

freezing, i guess, is a problem when water has no room to expand as it becomes ice. With radiator removed, i would think there would not be any such case, given the fact that water passages are of a fairly large cross-section

Lots of erroneous thoughts in this thread, combined with some really good advice.

The good advice is it doesn't do any good to sit around worrying about it.

As for the freezing issue, it depends on how full of water the coolant jackets are. The fact is when water freezes it expands. An engine case, block, or cylinder head is typically no match for the pressures exerted by the expansion of water as it turns to ice. The end result is often a crack. Where does it crack? Where is the water? In which direction did the freeze propogate? Where are the weakest points in the casting?

Obviously it is impossible to answer those questions, so your only option is to put it together and pressure test the cooling system, or start it and see if you wind up with coolant in the oil, coolant in a combusion chamber, or an external coolant leak that is visually detectable. If the amount of water in the engine wasn't enough to cause trapped ice with nowhere to go, you'll be fine. If not, you'll have problems. Really, it's too late to worry about it now.

1. Was the sytem closed when it froze?, Water needs a place to expand. Try this fill up 2 old water bottles to the top, one with a tight cap and one with no cap or a hole and freeze them. Look at the results.
2. Was he (PO) running it as a track bike w/ or w/o the radiator?
3. It ran when you bought it?
4. Use some died water and presurize the system. Use the radiator hoses plug one and presurize through the other. If it leaks when its cold, when it heats up... your......:eek1
5. Relax, you bought this as a project. .. You want to get it right the first time? Where's the fun in that?
6. Read the past below. It says it better'n smarterish.

IIRC the TL1000 has pretty effective freeze plugs in the head - the SV probably does too. There's a decent chance it didn't do any harm if there was very little water in the system. If it had a bunch of water there's a decent chance it only pushed the freeze plugs out.

Post the same question on tlzone.net and you'll probably get really detailed info. The member there Sam has rebuilt at least 20 of these motors (no exaggeration) I think.

Lot of good thoughts, thanks guys. Yes I realize worrying does me no good and its to late for that. I would just be seriously bummed if thats the case. The PO was running it with a radiator when he raced it, but winterized it in ocotober after his last race. I bought it and it ran fine, although only ran for a short period of time because I didnt have the radiator on it.

No it did not have a radiator on it when it froze. Yes I am hopping the ice just expanded down the tubes because it was the easiest way to go.

Yes I bought it as a project but I really dont want to mess with the engine a whole lot yet.

I'm with the guys saying don't worry about it. If the rad was off and there was minimal fluid in the system, then there was nothing pressurized. No pressure means that any freezing liquid would simply expand in the direction of least resistance, and this obviously would be empty tubes/passageways, versus having nowhere to go in a full sealed system and cracking a water jacket.

Also, as stated, apparently if these engines have freeze plugs (huh, fancy that! I wouldn't have known this...) one would imagine them doing just what they were carefully designed to do, and serve as sacrificial exits for just such an occurance, right?

I think you can sleep without too much undue concern and worry.

Little known fact: "Freeze plug" is largely a marketing term. They are really called "core plugs" and are meant to fill the core holes from the casting process. It was only discovered later on that if the contents of a block froze the expanding ice had a tendency to dislodge the plugs because they were easier to dislodge than the wall of a cylinder block.

A testament to the fact that they are not really designed primarily as freeze plugs is the sheer number of cracked engine blocks I saw during my 20 years as an Auto Tech, many of which had the "freeze plugs" perfectly intact

I never new that either. But hey, if they work to expand when frozen then I am ok with that.