Yamaha FZ-07 / MT-07 thread

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by cabanza, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. pilot

    pilot ...

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    You guys need to tone down the bickering.
  2. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    It is more or less impossible a free flowing exhaust can provide more low-mid torque than a stock one on most bikes in real world situations, ie on the road. There is a lot more science invested on any stock exhaust intricate internal tubing and header design than any akrapovic contraption.

    Dyno operators do not understand very well how to load the rear wheel and dynos in general have no means to know what the aerodynamic drag is for each bike. Without this information programmed on the dyno brake, the rear wheel load is wrong, hence fueling is wrong, hence torque graph is meaningless. Top power single value is usually right (as it is a product of integration over many instantaneous values), but the way to get there (ie torque graph) cannot be depicted by a dyno.

    The only way to see in reality what is going on, is to take the same stretch of straight road, preferably slightly uphill, put the bike on top gear and accelerate from minimum tractable revs to top speed while monitoring speed vs time.. Then compare graphs.

    I have set many bikes with wideband monitors onboard, both carbed and FI. I gave up on dynos when I saw that my AFR readings on the dyno where never the same with the ones on the road.

    And a hint, manufacturers NEVER use dynos to set fueling maps. They acquire them after many miles of road riding with complex data acquisition gadgetry.
  3. Alexander B

    Alexander B Long timer

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    Mousitsas said:
    "And a hint, manufacturers NEVER use dynos to set fueling maps. They acquire them after many miles of road riding with complex data acquisition gadgetry."
    How do you even come up with stuff like this?
    A friend of mine works with engine development at Volvo. We have diacussed how they spend countless hours fine tuning hardware and programming in order to reach emission targets as well as optimising economy and driveability. Given the current (and future!) emission laws for motorbikes, I am certain MC engines are fine tuned in a similar fashion. Road riding is not stringent enough and lacks control over many parameteters. As a confirmation of the tuning results, yes, as an exclusive method, no!
  4. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    Last time I checked vovlvo didn't produce bikes. And I cannot understand how atmospheric conditions and aerodynamic drag are programmed into dynos in the first place, unless extensive wind tunnel testing is done.
    Also you just said "fine tuning to meet emission laws". Do you know that in motorbikes (i do not know about cars) emission testing is done for a very little portion of the operating envelop? It is so sterilised and specific that even dynos can do it. Actually I would not be surprised if emission bureaucrats only accept simulation (aka dyno) data for giving the green light.

    I am afraid you are talking about a different matter here...
  5. Alexander B

    Alexander B Long timer

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    Emission law requirement will trump rideability. Every time.
    Do you thinlk it is "road riding" based development that gives us the surging, stuttering, vibrating, lean running engines that sit in almost every brand today?

    To get repeatablilty and parameter control, you run the engine in a bench/dyno during development and emission tuning.

    Have a look how Ducati even emission test all their bikes before shipping:
    http://www.gizmag.com/ducati-factory-photos-pictures/30089/

    Not from a development environment though, but I think such pictures are harder to find online.

    OF course, with all this emission work done, many buyers immediately put on a Power Commander to make the poor bike run properly... :lol3
  6. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    On most bikes emissions concern throttle opening up to about 15-20% where FI functions in closed loop. This can be dyno tested and developed since it is only one sensor basically taken into account, the lamda. The hard bit of fueling management though is above that.

    At the end of the day we don not disagree that much...
  7. YZEtc

    YZEtc Feel lucky?

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    Old school damper rod forks.
    Going by looks, I'm guessing the shock is not meant to be disassembled for a revalve, etc., but don't carve that in stone 'cause I'm uncertain.
    4-piston, monoblock front calipers.

    I just brought one home last night.
    Weee. :)
  8. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    Nice, good luck with it. Do you have experience on the Kawi 650 bikes to give an idea of how the engine feels compared to them?
  9. arshishb

    arshishb Been here awhile

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    Question for the owners: How is the bike on highway? Does mpg drop considerably because of the lack of aerodynamics when superslabbing?
  10. B02S4

    B02S4 Aye

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    OP posted what appears to be a DJ dyno run which the operator only printed HP values between the OEM silencer and the aftermarket silencer...that said, HP is stronger throughout the rev range...the formula he provided is fact, not theory...it would have been nice to have the torque values, run environmental conditions and correction factor shown, however that additional info isn't necessary to reach conclusions about the relative difference between the runs, given what the OP did provide.

    FWIW, to me "45 years of tuning experience" does not mean much in this context without also knowing what dyno experience you also have, if any.

    I agree with you that the dispute could be handled in a more cordial manner.
  11. T

    T --------------

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    This is how I was loaded on the interstate (avg. speed 70ish). Maybe the small shield helped, but my mileage actually went up to 62+mpg from 57 mpg avg. mixed/around town. Nice.....

    [​IMG]
  12. YZEtc

    YZEtc Feel lucky?

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    Ninja 650, etc.?
    Negative.

    The FZ-07 is quite torquey and peppy, and the cross plane 270-degree crankshaft makes it feel and sound similar to a V-twin.
    Must sound very good with an aftermarket exhaust on it.

    Had a great take-the-long-way-home ride after work, tonight.
  13. arshishb

    arshishb Been here awhile

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    Nice. Curious to know if it drops when you cruise at 80, factoring an 8% average optimistic speedo on most bikes; that translates to 73.6 mph actual.
  14. T

    T --------------

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    Every speedo on every bike I've owned has been slightly "optimistic". Strangely this FZ speedometer is right on with my GPS.
  15. Mikey Boy

    Mikey Boy Been here awhile

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    Anyone try some dirt and gravel roads yet? I'm not talking extreme dirt or anything. Just wondering how it works with the ground clearance and suspension. About as well as a FZ1 I suppose?
  16. Cortez

    Cortez BAZINGA!

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    Probably better, it's lighter, 1 size smaller rear tire and probably better mass
    centralization.
  17. Omarius

    Omarius Long timer

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    [​IMG]

    Lubing the chain...
  18. Omarius

    Omarius Long timer

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  19. DeejayP999

    DeejayP999 Been here awhile

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  20. armourbl

    armourbl Adventure Life

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    Sat on one today at the dealer. They were pushing hard to try and sell one to me and my wife. We are shopping for her, but just window shopping at this point.

    She really likes the bike, but can only touch by fully pointing her toes down. That won't be an easy thing to do in riding boots. Of course, they offered to lower it for us as a concession of sorts.

    Anyone lower one of these yet? If so, how did you do it? I'm not really a fan of the shorter dog-bone trick. I'd rather have the internals limited and make sure that no rake or trail numbers get adversely affected. She'd need about 2 inches by my guess.

    ben