An Unholy Union II: Wp Extreme 50mm Conventionals on a G/S

No measured torque, just until the bars fall slowly to the side from center with a light push... before they fell quickly with no push

I am thinking (hoping) the wheel is having some effect as well...

I thought this as well, and removed the front tire and braced under the fender with a 2X4 that was lifting the front end and taking all the weight from the mallet blows.

Maybe next time...

Well, I have this feeling that any 10+ year old KTM wheel is going to have issues of one kind or another since they were all on dirtbikes (17mm axle).

I think I will just pop for a new wheel and spokes on my hub, from Woody's, this winter. No idea what that would cost yet.

My inner scientist weeps Definitely sounded like they were falling too quick and fast before. Bouncing off the stops or not (or how many times:huh) once the turning bars hits them is another test I have heard mentioned.
But, there is so much room for user and bike error and with this time tested technique.
I love our ability now to just be able to torque to a figure and take the guessing game and variables out of it.... I just want to compare my apple to some more apples...

You might be right about the old wheels. There has to be a few good ones around though... Our ebay is pretty fickle and you have to watch and wait. Wreckers want $400 or so for a wheel, but private sellers can be less than a $100.
I guess I got pretty lucky with mine (@$150) while it shows its 10+ years with a bit of corrosion on the spokes it is nice and straight.
A while back I also got a nice new unused 17mm hub for cheap on german ebay with the intention of eventually putting a 19" rim on it so I can have two sets of wheels/tires, some decent dual purpose for road and touring using my new G/S rear wheel, and some proper aggressive knobbies for fun in the dirt using my old beat up and bent G/S rear.

Typing this reminded me and I just found a nice 19" excel rim on ebay to bid on...

regarding the title, a new subject for us.

Has anyone here figured out our hub/spoke/rim situation?
It seems to me that we or I at least have a Jap laced front wheel (rather than a Euro one as a 'KTM' wheel might lead one to assume)

Have a look at this post by Woody,
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6079421&postcount=621
and then check your KTM front wheel if you have one...
I've done a bit of googling and it seems there are some KTMs that came with Jap laced wheels, often front wheel only:huh but I cannot find much info about our front ends.

I'm trying to figure this out because (as part of the greater plan of finishing my G/S and selling the R90 and cutting down to one bike in this country that can do double duty) I have been gathering parts to build a 19" front wheel for this front end to go with my new G/S rear wheel so I can have two sets of tyres, agressive knobbies for the 21" and a more road oriented dual purpose for the 19".

I've got a brand new 17mm axle KTM hub, just like the one that comes on my current KTM front wheel. Don't know how to tell if this bare hub is Jap or Euro, but I am hoping it is Jap like the one on my bike.
I've just bought a new unused 19" 1.85 36H Jap indexed Excel rim (originally intended as a rear rim for Jap bikes) and I hoping I can stitch it all together.
I've been trolling ebay for a while trying to get these parts cheap so with hub and rim only have less than $100 in it so far so shouldn't loose out if it doesn't work out.
Rim will get here soon and then I need to figure out spokes... or maybe give up and pass it onto a wheel builder.

Anywyay,
the question is- how is your KTM front wheel from a WP50 set of forks laced?
Is Japanese the norm?
As R-dubb saw in this thread ordering the wrong rim can be kinda annoying!

I can't answer the question, but KTM has used several different sources of rims over the years DID, Excel (both japanese) as well as Behr (euro) and maybe others. Maybe that has something to do with it.

in case this helps, these are photos of a WP50 front hub (Talon repro) and excel 21" wheel

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You are probably right but it does seem a bit odd at times especially with descriptions of a few bikes coming with front and rears laced in different patterns..
Excel will provide them in either pattern, though I am not sure about the other manufacturers.

My current 21" rim is a DID and Japanese pattern. It is perfectly straight but a little old and weathered.
A while ago (before realising about this difference in spoke patterns on KTMs) I scored a basically new "KTM" excel Al7 21" rim on ebay. I didn't really need it but it was just one of those ebay buys you put a very low snipe on and don't think you will win. After winning it I figured that once I got a bit more confident lacing wheels it would one day replace this old DID... not so sure it is going to work out now. Where my Jap pattern Excel is marked with a J in front of the size, this Al7 one is marked with an N.
Not sure what N means....

Anyway, it was an interesting lesson for me and I'm just glad I am learning it through buying cheap barely used stuff rather than brand new and expensive stuff.

I still wanna hear what pattern the other KTM wheels from WP50 front ends are laced in?

Ras, do you have a photo of that wheel from the other side? I can't quite tell what spoke is going where from the side shown...

And I have no idea what spokes to get yet for this 19" wheel.

Does anyone know of any KTMs with the same style hub (even if different axle size) that came with a 19 inch front wheel? Just trying to get a start on lengths and part numbers in fisches to see what might work.

As far as I know, Excel just provides the dimpled rim with the dimples evenly spaced (non-specific to any lacing pattern) and undrilled. Whoever builds the wheel will drill the dimples at the correct angle for the lacing pattern they plan to use.

As far as I seem to have absorbed Excel sell drilled and un-drilled rims. Drilled in Euro and Japanese patterns and usually stamped as being so, being what is typically available to the consumer from rim/parts retailers (who are just selling a product shipped from the suppliers/manufacturers), and then they also sell un-drilled rims for specialists and wheel builders (Buchanans etc) and such...

Saying all that, I really don't know.
When almost all their other wheels are Euro pattern, I am still surprised about having a japanese pattern on my KTM wheel in the first place.

When I was playing around with the springs in the stock forks I would get wicked speed wobbles with not enough sag. But every where else the suspension felt "good". I was going by what race tech and others were saying how much it should be. But they were going off a standard 1981 airhead. The R/T springs were too short and I made the difference up with shims but could not lower the sag because of it.

What I found was the inch or two that it was off was enough to throw the geometry of the bike off. The front was sitting higher than it should be.

I would double check the measurements compared to stock. Maybe raise the forks a tad in the triples so you have a bit more fork sticking up through the top clamp? Gassed up. and no fuel with that tanker. Also, the forks seemed to pogo a bit, or bounce. I found that slowing the rebound a tad cured that. On the stock forks I used Mobil 1 synthetic ATF (thicker) for fluid.

It really doesn't take much to throw off the geometry on the G/S. If load it up to tour (not much I may add) I MUST reset the sag on the rear shock or it is an absolute terror to ride. Starts to wobble real bad at high way speeds.

Apologies to airhead wrangle as I posted this in his unholy thread by mistake this morning...


Hyperpro is doing suspension evaluations here at the national really and looked aver my G/S. The front suspension has enough friction that small pushes down on the handlebars actually has no effect on the front at all and makes the (undesprung) rear shock bounce.

The tech told me the stiction is common to these forks and suggested replacing the seals with one from from SFK, which are apparently very low drag seals. He also thought the springs may be too soft as well.

The low speed damping on my rear Ohlins isn't working and the spring needs more preload at best and a stiffer spring at worst. The shock will require a rebuild to deal with the lack of low speed damping.

Pfffff. Like I care. Did you get new bushings as part of your recent rebuild? They can get fine metal particles embedded in them and get quite frictiony as they get older. Wish I could be at the MOA rally.

No new bushes. I'll call Konflict when I get back. No doubt they need some more work.

HKC? Google let me down.
I ended up getting a few sets of the OEM blue seals a while ago, but haven't swapped them in yet. Don't tell me they are sticky junk...
I do still get a little more stiction than I was hoping for.
One day when I feel rich I will buy a fork rebuild kit with all the bushes.
Hope you are having a good time!

Sorry, SFK.

Jenna and others don't have the stiction issues, so I am hoping it is easily solvable!

Actually SKF :d



I just ordered some last night along with a set of bushings and fork oil to rebuild my forks on my next trip up to Seattle. Hopefully that'll give me a good non-stictiony baseline I can start tuning from.

As far as i know there are no SKF seals for the WP50 Extreme forks,... which sizes did you order?

Sorry, I wasn't clear there. I have WP 4860 USDs.

Thats what I said in the other thread Solo Lobo posted in first.

@ Dmaster : Airhead Wrangler has the same 48mm forks I have. So the SKF are no problem for that one.

@ AW Don't order the HD kit !!! They are to tight !!!

What's the HD kit?

I ordered these:

"Fork Bushings for 48mm WP, KTM & Husaberg by Innteck SKF"

and these:

"Fork Seals for 48mm WP, KTM & Husaberg by SKF"

(sorry for the thread noise, solo)

In some sizes they make heavy duty kits. Than the dust seal is tighter than the normal kit.
They advice those for wet conditions. But they have more stiction again.