Whats the ATG of ATGATT?

I don't think anyone's arguing you can eliminate risk through using your extreme skilz, but you can improve your odds drastically by doing various things to the point that riding isn't particularly dangerous--at least not dangerous enough to keep many of us from continuing to do it! And, you can gain the majority of the safety benefit by doing very simple things that anyone can master: don't drink and drive, avoid driving in dangerous areas (ice, snow, gravel), drive a bit slower than hair-on-fire fast, wear basic safety gear, use hi-viz gear, stay very alert and don't take risks, etc. The other day I was riding a very familiar rural road with very tight corners--it's fun to swoop around them at a speed that feels fast, but might be only 35 mph. But, this morning the sun was in my eyes, and the shadows were completely obscuring the road, so I dialed it back a notch from my usual pace, and low and behold as I was taking one of these corners suddenly the road surface was covered with a slippery mixture of dirt, gravel, and horse manure where I had never encountered it before. The heavy rains the previous day had washed this stuff across the road right at the apex of the corner and I never saw it until I was in it. There was a short pucker moment as both the front and back lost bite, but because I wasn't at full tilt I was able to straighten up the bike and slither toward the edge of the road, where I once again regained sufficient traction to round the corner. Taking a little bit off your pace at times when the road is unfamiliar or the conditions aren't perfect might just make a big difference in your day. Plus, I was suited up and if I had crashed at maybe 30 mph I probably wouldn't have been too badly banged up. Belt and braces...

Me thinks ABS and traction control should be part of the ATG concept. At least ABS is able to reduce impact speed and thus reduces the injuries as gear does. Not riding ATAS (all the assistance systems) is insane and should be fiercely condemned.

Exactly. My first teacher told me it will be my own fault if I *ever* get hurt while riding, and I have yet to ever find him wrong.

Skill won't save you from everything....

Even the most skilled riders can be bit by the unavoidable....

I agree 100%.
Been riding even longer, and never had an issue on the street.
Dirt is different, and you can fall and get busted up even when using care, at least on a bigger heavy bike.
At least, its a lot easier in the dirt.
In my case, if I had been riding a smaller lighter lower bike, I might not have been hurt at all, and that is part of it I suppose, as an old guy with brittle bones, a dr650 was likely a bad choice for rough dirt riding.
After switching to a TW200, I did not fall at all.
If the dr was bad, a klr or anything heavier is just asking for trouble and broken bones.

After a few close calls early on, I use great caution in places with limited sight lines.
Once I came around a well known turn at speed to find a huge hole, did the super man flying thing, lucky I was young and flexible.
I also had a few very close calls with jeeps, like hitting their mirrors at speed in turns, and that made me think about what would have happened with a full head on, its pot luck if you can avoid something like that in heavy sand with limited space and warning at higher speeds.

Deer are a risk, but I think you can reduce that a lot by not riding where they are at the times they are active, and if you have to, slow way down and look for them.

I had one close call with deer on the BRP, riding when I should not have been, and even though I saw them and slowed down, they timed their jump to pass a foot in front of my bike, stupid squid deer things.
Not sure what would have happened had I hit it at 40 mph...I doubt I would be dead, but I would not have been happy.

I think there are just way to many people who over ride their sight lines, unable to react for whatever, and then say there was nothing they could do.

Skill?
No, but he was aware of the problem and rode at night anyway.
In a place where deer are active.

That was avoidable.

Sell your bike and get some crumple zones.

98% :d

So if he was hit during the day then it wouldn't have been avoidable??

Deere jump out in the road all times of the day.

the only way to avoid every potential motorcycle riding accident is to never get on one....

Agreed, and I completely avoid the most-dangerous combinations of seasons, times-of-day and/or locations. However, one of the finest men and riders I have ever known and his wife both died in the middle of the day while away to accept a dealership award and a deer happened to intervene.

Susceptible = yes!
Must it always result in going down onto the road = no!
The difference is in the riders ability to scrub off enough speed before impact. I've hit 2 deer in my lifetime that might fall into the "unavoidable" catagory. Walked away both times due to keeping a level head, expecting them (keeping brakes covered) not panic braking and scrubbing off enough speed both times that all I got was a little hair on my front fender and a cracked headlight lense. (as the deer was left straddeling the front wheel..mostly uninjured, to dart back into the woods)
...and despite my "luck" above, I tend to say it has more to do with skill than luck because = I CAN'T HIT THE LOTTERY TO SAVE MY LIFE!

No! But I do wear my polarized lenses at night.
Side by side with my work glasses (I wear perscription lenses) you can hardly notice the tint.
They not only work great for helping to identify the road hazards I mentioned but, they also work great for fishing on overcast/T-storm days when light is limited.
I should also mention, they cut out 100% visor/windshiled glare which helps to greatly increase night time vision. (even when there's rain on the windshield or visor)

If you really want to know how much I'm worried about death or injury....keep in mind, I didn't leave the water today during some severe T-Storms with lightening hitting all around me untill I caught at least 1 really nice smallmouth bass from the Schuylkill river.

I'm definitely THE Rivercreep! (and yeah! I rode my Cycle there!)

Crumple zones don't help me avoiding a crash. Being small and having a superior power/weight ratio does. You should have known that.

The thread topic is ATGATT and I think this example points out why some of us choose not to ride ATGATT.

The guy who was hit by a deer and killed was an experienced, seasoned, safety expert returning from a safety conference and I'm going out on a limb to assume, given his credentials, that he was riding ATGATT.

Maybe he wasn't but lets say he was. He died while riding ATGATT, so had he been MOGATT or NOGATT would he have survived. Again an assumption but probalby not. So in the example cited, ATGATT did not seem to make a difference in the outcome.

As I said before, abrasions, broken bones, and road rash I can deal with, blunt force trauma to vital areas, not so much.

He probably was; there's no magic piece of kit that will save a rider from everything chance might throw at him. I'll continue to ride with the gear that I think will protect me as well as can be expected if my riding skills aren't sufficient to avoid an accident. Your interpretation of "as well as can be expected" probably varies from mine. There's nothing wrong with that -- within the limits of the laws where you ride wear what you want.

At least for the deer around here, there is no magic time of day when they are either more or less likely to be on the road. I've encountered deer on the road mornings, in the middle of the day, evenings and late at night on multiple occasions.

Rivercreep, please tell me about your polarized eyewear that you use at night. I did some searching on polarized lenses. I found polarized night glasses for sale, but the professional sources on the internet did not recommend polarized lenses for night driving. Thanks.

Same here,I live in the Deer/Car crash capital of Michigan.Their is absolutely no time of day that you can take a break from watching for deer.

The worse thing is peoples natural reaction is to swerve to avoid them and in many instances they will cross into incoming traffic,as hot and humid as it can get I still wear the jacket,gloves,and FF helmet everywhere.

I don't find it comfortable but rather comforting to think that some simple precautions on gear choice may be the difference between getting to work or laying on the sofa in pain.

It's much like how even gradual tinted shields also have a no night use on them = lawsuit protection, simple as that.

Like I said, to look at mine, they look slightly smokey, that's it. All I asked the Eye Dr. for was the lightest tint available.
B.T.W. he was a private Dr. not a guy from lense crafters, pearl vision or one of the chain establishments.

F.W.I.W. they're about 6 yrs old (my vision hasn't changed) but I can't see a very light tint polarized lense NOT being available from a reputable eye Dr.
B.T.W He also didn't recommend them for night driving. I find they work perfect and I can see much better at night with them, than I can my normal glasses. Glare is what kills me more than anything. Polarized lenses are THE only solution there.

A piece of abbrasion resistant and/or armored gear over every piece of your body. Pretty simple. Covering for your feet, legs, torso, arms, hands and face/head. I don't really understand what is confusing about this. Ever heard of the belt sander test? You're not ATG if you're not OK with some dude taking a running belt sander with 40 grit paper on it to any part of your body...


Jeans, unless you are wearing armor underneath them or are kevlar lined or similar, don't count.