Problem with oil circulating? - Page 2

SUVslayer · 07-11-2012, 05:40 AM

Boy can you say no time to work on bike or ride?

FINALLY getting back to this, and after pulling the check valve, it didn't seem to have any issues at all. What I did notice and I believe the reason the oil isn't circulating is that the inner screen (inside oil reserve, at check valve) was all gunked up with dark sludge. Stuck my finger into the reserve, and there was more.

TA-Zappa · 07-11-2012, 06:30 AM

I'm no mechanic but as far as I know if you have old used oil (like normal oil who "turns" black) and you let it sit for a longer period of time. The residue (sp?) in the oil will fall down to the bottom of the container (bottle or oiltank) and I guess that's your greasy black sludge you are mentioning.

Normally you should, if you are closed to your service limit, change the oil BEFORE you hibernate the bike for the winter not after. Then you will have fresh oil in the bike during the winter and any residue that exist in the oil will not be able to create the sludge.

I guess there is more then one thread in this forum talking about oil and how it works.

If there is anyone who has more knowledge in this area please chime in and correct me. I'm most likely wrong here...

Cheers,
Zappa

midfat · 07-11-2012, 06:39 AM

I had less than 1500 on a new WP, yet was plagued by contaminated oil. Thought surely it could not be the seal. Ultimately decided to pull the seal. Found coolant behind shaft seal. Moral of the story is that the seal is hyper fragile. My guess is previous owner may have damaged the seal when installed. New seal installed and so far so good. Fingers crossed.

WeekEnder · 07-11-2012, 06:55 AM

Zappa is right about changing the oil before you put the bike away. You may need to clean the oil tank to get rid of the black stuff before you put the bike on the road this year. It will not clean itself with new oil no matter how many times you change it. Good luck!

SUVslayer · 07-11-2012, 07:30 AM

Zappa, thanks for pointing out my laziness and neglect to the world!
I think you have an excellent point.The oil wasn't that old when it went in for the winter, but not new either. I'll see about cleaning the reservoir out and see where that gets me. Cheers!

bikeworm · 07-12-2012, 08:18 AM

I had a similar issue, loud clicking and oil light on. It turned out to be a cracked in the return oil line to the head. It was sucking air. There is a service bulletin on this. ten minute fix.

SUVslayer · 08-05-2012, 06:38 AM

I wanted to post my findings on this topic...

I flushed my cooling system, and after I did I had huge amounts of water in the sump, which pretty much confirmed the water pump was shot.

Once I opened the water pump up, I noticed the wheel was able to come in and out A LOT - far more than seemed right (I'd never opened the pump before). When I tried removing the wheel, the entire shaft and seal assembly came out with it, with bits and pieces of seal and bearing falling out. That was because there was no trace of the inboard shaft circlip! I just hope it was forgotten at assembly and isn't being masticated upon by all those gears.

Not a great pic, but this is the remains. The little spring that goes around the shaft hole in the seal - broken. Chunks of seal gone. The metal circle is from the bearing, which was also missing a rubber seal that's supposed to be on one side.

I have to rack up some miles and see if I got everything back together properly, but I was happy to have found a culprit. Finally, a big THANK YOU to Pyndon and CPmodem for their very informative writeups. Saved me a huge amount of time and wasted energy! Their links are below.

http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20...ater_pump.html
http://ktm950.info/how/Orange%20Gara..._overhaul.html

SUVslayer · 08-05-2012, 11:08 AM

EDIT: So after taking it around a little, the jury is still out.

For the first couple of miles, at idle, the oil light would flicker. Give it a little gas, 3-4 grand, and it would go out. There was also intermittent (valve? cam chain?) clatter when this would happen. When I check the oil, it looks a little cloudy, but I'm hoping that's due to just having run.

I rode it for a while, and now the oil light doesn't come on at idle. It's still too early to tell, but I'm crossing my fingers there's just some residual crap in the system I couldn't clean out that needs to work through. If all goes well, all it needs is another oil change in a 1000 miles or so.

In other news, I found a clutch slave piston (apparently KTM doesn't sell them separately anymore

) and I replaced my old cracked one. It'd be nice not to have to feed the beast ATF on a regular basis.

gefr · 08-06-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUVslayer

I found a clutch slave piston (apparently KTM doesn't sell them separately anymore

) and I replaced my old cracked one. It'd be nice not to have to feed the beast ATF on a regular basis.

If you have a cracked slave piston, feeding ATF will not work for more than 10'. Manufacturing a slave piston at a lathe workshop is very simple, inexpensive and long lasting. Works for me.
Cheers.

SUVslayer · 08-07-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gefr

If you have a cracked slave piston, feeding ATF will not work for more than 10'. Manufacturing a slave piston at a lathe workshop is very simple, inexpensive and long lasting. Works for me.
Cheers.

If only I was a competent machinist with a metal workshop

SUVslayer · 08-07-2012, 05:46 PM

So if anyone wants to chime in, I could use some help here.

Took the bike for a ride, and besides some oil light flicker at idle, it seemed to be running ok. Parked it, and started it again a little later...

...Now the light is on solid, and won't go out. I dumped the oil again, checked the screen at the check valve, the oil screen, and the oil filter, and everything seemed clean (a few metal shavings, but otherwise no gunk). I was expecting the screen at the check valve to be gunked up with residual sludge, but no. The oil is a little dirty for being fresh, but I expected that due to flushing the system. But it doesn't seem to be contaminated with coolant. So why isn't oil circulating? Is there something else I can check that might be blocked? Seems like there's a cork in the system somewhere, but I can't figure out where.

Uller · 08-07-2012, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUVslayer

If only I was a competent machinist with a metal workshop

The website is in German but, you can use Google Translate to view it in English.

http://www.sigutech.com/

They have a replacement piston for the stock slave that uses two o-rings instead of just one.

http://sigutech.com/index.php?option...d=20&Itemid=38

gefr · 08-08-2012, 04:46 AM

It has been reported that it needed replacement even though it was unclogged manually. The fix proved temporary.
Cheers.

SUVslayer · 08-08-2012, 05:01 AM

Gefr,
Thanks for that. I woke up thinking that I should have investigated the check valve more closely. Last I looked at it, it seemed fine, but I suppose it's possible it's hard to identify a fail when looking at it. I even have a replacement, but after seeing all the sludge I'd discounted it as the problem.

Also, I'm wondering if I need to remove the oil pan and do an inspect down under.

07-11-2012, 05:40 AM	#16
SUVslayer ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2003 Location: south of stinkfoot Oddometer: 693	Boy can you say no time to work on bike or ride? FINALLY getting back to this, and after pulling the check valve, it didn't seem to have any issues at all. What I did notice and I believe the reason the oil isn't circulating is that the inner screen (inside oil reserve, at check valve) was all gunked up with dark sludge. Stuck my finger into the reserve, and there was more. SUVslayer screwed with this post 08-05-2012 at 06:15 AM

07-11-2012, 06:30 AM	#17
TA-Zappa Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2004 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Oddometer: 135	I'm no mechanic but as far as I know if you have old used oil (like normal oil who "turns" black) and you let it sit for a longer period of time. The residue (sp?) in the oil will fall down to the bottom of the container (bottle or oiltank) and I guess that's your greasy black sludge you are mentioning. Normally you should, if you are closed to your service limit, change the oil BEFORE you hibernate the bike for the winter not after. Then you will have fresh oil in the bike during the winter and any residue that exist in the oil will not be able to create the sludge. I guess there is more then one thread in this forum talking about oil and how it works. If there is anyone who has more knowledge in this area please chime in and correct me. I'm most likely wrong here... Cheers, Zappa __________________ '09 250 EXC-F SixDays - 175h '05 950 Adv S - 72000km '98 XL600V Transalp - 86000km - SOLD

07-12-2012, 08:18 AM	#21
bikeworm Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2004 Location: Sin City, USA Oddometer: 164	I had a similar issue, loud clicking and oil light on. It turned out to be a cracked in the return oil line to the head. It was sucking air. There is a service bulletin on this. ten minute fix. __________________ If you're not the lead dog the view is always the same!

08-08-2012, 04:46 AM	#28
gefr Life is a trip Joined: Nov 2005 Location: East Med, Greece Oddometer: 3,108	The check valve at the bottom of the oil reservoir could be stuck. It has been reported that it needed replacement even though it was unclogged manually. The fix proved temporary. Cheers. __________________ There is always a reason!!

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07-11-2012, 06:39 AM	#18
midfat wholesome dirtiness Joined: Jul 2007 Location: Socal, between the mountains, desert and ocean Oddometer: 163	I had less than 1500 on a new WP, yet was plagued by contaminated oil. Thought surely it could not be the seal. Ultimately decided to pull the seal. Found coolant behind shaft seal. Moral of the story is that the seal is hyper fragile. My guess is previous owner may have damaged the seal when installed. New seal installed and so far so good. Fingers crossed.

07-11-2012, 06:55 AM	#19
WeekEnder Going nowhere fast Joined: Feb 2007 Location: Longmont, Colorado Oddometer: 14	Zappa is right about changing the oil before you put the bike away. You may need to clean the oil tank to get rid of the black stuff before you put the bike on the road this year. It will not clean itself with new oil no matter how many times you change it. Good luck!

07-11-2012, 07:30 AM	#20
SUVslayer ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2003 Location: south of stinkfoot Oddometer: 693	Zappa, thanks for pointing out my laziness and neglect to the world! I think you have an excellent point.The oil wasn't that old when it went in for the winter, but not new either. I'll see about cleaning the reservoir out and see where that gets me. Cheers!

08-05-2012, 06:38 AM	#22
SUVslayer ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2003 Location: south of stinkfoot Oddometer: 693	I wanted to post my findings on this topic... I flushed my cooling system, and after I did I had huge amounts of water in the sump, which pretty much confirmed the water pump was shot. Once I opened the water pump up, I noticed the wheel was able to come in and out A LOT - far more than seemed right (I'd never opened the pump before). When I tried removing the wheel, the entire shaft and seal assembly came out with it, with bits and pieces of seal and bearing falling out. That was because there was no trace of the inboard shaft circlip! I just hope it was forgotten at assembly and isn't being masticated upon by all those gears. Not a great pic, but this is the remains. The little spring that goes around the shaft hole in the seal - broken. Chunks of seal gone. The metal circle is from the bearing, which was also missing a rubber seal that's supposed to be on one side. I have to rack up some miles and see if I got everything back together properly, but I was happy to have found a culprit. Finally, a big THANK YOU to Pyndon and CPmodem for their very informative writeups. Saved me a huge amount of time and wasted energy! Their links are below. http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20...ater_pump.html http://ktm950.info/how/Orange%20Gara..._overhaul.html

08-05-2012, 11:08 AM	#23
SUVslayer ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2003 Location: south of stinkfoot Oddometer: 693	EDIT: So after taking it around a little, the jury is still out. For the first couple of miles, at idle, the oil light would flicker. Give it a little gas, 3-4 grand, and it would go out. There was also intermittent (valve? cam chain?) clatter when this would happen. When I check the oil, it looks a little cloudy, but I'm hoping that's due to just having run. I rode it for a while, and now the oil light doesn't come on at idle. It's still too early to tell, but I'm crossing my fingers there's just some residual crap in the system I couldn't clean out that needs to work through. If all goes well, all it needs is another oil change in a 1000 miles or so. In other news, I found a clutch slave piston (apparently KTM doesn't sell them separately anymore ) and I replaced my old cracked one. It'd be nice not to have to feed the beast ATF on a regular basis.

08-07-2012, 05:46 PM	#26
SUVslayer ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2003 Location: south of stinkfoot Oddometer: 693	So if anyone wants to chime in, I could use some help here. Took the bike for a ride, and besides some oil light flicker at idle, it seemed to be running ok. Parked it, and started it again a little later... ...Now the light is on solid, and won't go out. I dumped the oil again, checked the screen at the check valve, the oil screen, and the oil filter, and everything seemed clean (a few metal shavings, but otherwise no gunk). I was expecting the screen at the check valve to be gunked up with residual sludge, but no. The oil is a little dirty for being fresh, but I expected that due to flushing the system. But it doesn't seem to be contaminated with coolant. So why isn't oil circulating? Is there something else I can check that might be blocked? Seems like there's a cork in the system somewhere, but I can't figure out where.

08-08-2012, 05:01 AM	#29
SUVslayer ^OP Studly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2003 Location: south of stinkfoot Oddometer: 693	Gefr, Thanks for that. I woke up thinking that I should have investigated the check valve more closely. Last I looked at it, it seemed fine, but I suppose it's possible it's hard to identify a fail when looking at it. I even have a replacement, but after seeing all the sludge I'd discounted it as the problem. Also, I'm wondering if I need to remove the oil pan and do an inspect down under.