E10 fuel

Well it's starting to happen in the UK, we have the prospect of E10 petrol and it's associated problems (real or imaginary).

It's got me wondering how many of the problems reported are just rubbish and how many are a know fact.

I know it will loosen dirt in the fuel system, I'm running a 950 so this could be a problem as I'm sure the carbs haven't been looked at since it was sold in 2004.
It's hygroscopic so will absorb more water into the fuel system while sitting, not a problem on a regularly used bike but could lead to problems while sitting.

How are the seals and fuel lines on the early 950's

Anything else?

Will a little 2 stroke oil help with corrosion on Aluminium parts?

Steve

All of your concerns are vaild. It's complete shite in motorcycles and smaller engines. The ethanol leaves deposits that are hell on carbs even when ridden regularly. I've pulled and cleaned the carbs on my 950 3x since I've owned it (not a fun job) because i didn't believe the hype about ethanol. Now I get it and have searched out stations that sell pure gas. Hope you guys have that option across the pond.

Only time will tell what other effects it has on our bikes.

On the upside my twin turbo 535 LOVES e85 and runs like a scolded dog.

Ahh welcome to ethanol hell! Just kidding. There are some issues with ethanol as you have previously stated. For the most part if the material that the ethanol fuel blend comes in contact with isn't rated for it, it may, cause that material to degrade. I had a BMW K1300 that developed an ethanol sensitivity and began to stall. Apparently, the Germans spec all the fuel lines for E10. Well guess what, some of our crafty and profit conscious fuel providers would add more ethanol than 10%. More ethanol, less gas, more profit! I tested upwards of 18% at some stations. That's the real problem. Basically be prepared for increased levels in your fuel supply, look for reputable suppliers that adhere to strict protocols. The other issue is anything that sits is going to have issues with ethanol laden fuel. It is hygroscopic, but it separates. You will have physical water in with your fuel which corrodes everything it comes in contact with. It kills small engines here in the US. I don't run ethanol fuel in any of my small engines(mowers, generators). I buy VP race gas for my 2T dirt bikes. I treat my 990 with ethanol specific fuel treatment. All in all it's the biggest fraud perpetuated on the consumer IMO. I hope this helps.

It's a problem and I think it is worse for engines that are not run regularly. In addition to the bikes I have a pontoon with an outboard - ask any outboard mechanic about what the ethanol does. In the boat I try to use ethanol free gas and I use a fuel stabilizer. the pontoon is in the water year round but gets less use in winter.

In winter I make sure i put pure gas in the bikes; not so much in summer when they are run frequently. DRZ manual says go ahead and run E10 but they added replacement of the fuel line to the maintenance schedule.

I use a "pure gas" app to find stations. Over here non-ethanol gas is usually premium which for me is a bit of a waste as three out of four machines only need regular.

I have been using E-10 since 1979. I haven't had any problems with it. There are concerns with long term storage but i have had no issues in regular use. I have run 1 car and 1 motorcycle over 200,000 miles each with no fuel system issues in either. Never even replaced the fuel filter in the car.

Most E-10 problems are political/ethical in nature with a lot of hype thrown in. Every fuel system problem nowadays get blamed on ethanol. I believe that gasoline in general is of poorer quality today regardless of the ethanol content.

Just my 2¢

Thanks for the relies

Fortunately it's not something we've had to contend with much in the UK, seen a fair bit in Europe though.
I think the plan is for "Premium" to still be up to 5% ethanol in the UK and the E10 has to be clearly marked on the pump along with warnings that it may not be suitable for all vehicles, consult manufacturer blah blah.

As far as I know any fuel we buy could have up to 5% Ethanol anyway.
So is there and milage in adding a little 2 stroke oil to help with corrosion? or has know one tried it?

Steve

Apparently, different people have different experiences with ethanol.

My early 2004 950 has lived its entire life on a steady diet of E10, and has not developed any ethanol-related problems. The carbs have always been clean inside, and have no deposits, or corrosion. Nor has the rest of the fuel system deteriorated. I wish I could blame my 4000 rpm flat spot on ethanol, but I'm sure my tuning skills are the cause of that.

The climate here in western Oregon is probably similar to yours, so moisture should probably be about the same threat. In the many years we have had E10, I have not found any ethanol-related problems with any of my vehicles.

But, I still don't like having to use it.

I have had this same experience.

I own 12 motorcycles, ranging in age from 1945 to 2007 (most are on the older end of that range, with original fuel tanks and carbs). I have been running e10 gas in all of them for ~10 years and have not had any ethanol related issues. None.

Make sure the fuel lines and fuel filters you buy are compatible with ethanol and you'll be fine. If you have a carbureted bike, drain the carb if its going to sit for more than 1 month. This is an EASY job that takes 30 seconds. I'm religious about draining my carb bowls when a bike is going to sit.

The only ethanol problem I have experienced is using a fuel filter not compatible with ethanol in a Yamaha boat outboard. The filter got gummed up and the motor stalled. Yamaha specifies which filters are and are not compatible with e10, and I used the wrong one. Replacing the filter solved the problem.

Bowber et al,
I really don't want to get into a debate on the politics or other reasoning of adding ethanol by the fuel companies, but they do and have done for quite a time over here in France. Even before E10 was marked on the pumps (you can no longer buy plain old 95ULG), I started to have problems with my 950SM.

I've a few toys, so my riding can be sporadic, often with there being a few months between outings for the 'big orange'. Some years ago though I became plagued with idle jet clogging, sometimes if I only left the bike for a few days. It became so frequent I was convinced for a time that the problem was ignition related: as soon as the choke was released it would either stop, or drop onto one cylinder at idle. Much investigation later the problem became obvious. Pull the carbs and extricate the idle fuel jets and there it was: every time I found one or both of them clogged with some gloopy shite. Every single time the symptoms appeared, the same thing. Poke out the crap with a paintbrush bristle (if it was soft enough), or ultrasonic clean with some vinegar (if hard), blow out with an airline, rebuild everything and the problem was gone. Not fun with the full OE carbs and airbox.

I tested the local fuel for ethanol and at one time measured 28%! This was with 95ULG, before E10 even appeared on the scene! All my samples from all the local garages that I could be arsed to try measured between 5 and 20%. Very not happy. Coincidentally the very few 98ULG samples I considered measured under 2% ethanol... but is much more expensive, and not always available where I live in the sticks.

I started turning off my fuel taps after each ride and running the carbs dry. That seemed to work for a bit, providing I remembered. Then once time after following this gambit... I got the same symptoms. Carb strip, jets out, and yes; one of the twatting things was bunged up again (incidentally the rear carb seemed the dominant victim if only one was found to be clogged)! Not happy.

This was the beginning of the end for me... and those FCRs that had been calling to me from Sudco were suddenly easier to justify as they really didn't need an airbox and draining them would be a breeze!! Lame, I know, but after that I never looked back, only forward to a whole set of new problems. Fortunately all have proven reasonably easy to sort out.

Do I still have jet clogging issues? Yes, from time to time, but I don't drain the carbs after each ride (despite this being one of my internal justifications!!) simply because pulling the carbs and cleaning out the jets takes me less than 30 minutes now.

Yes I do have a fuel filter and yes it's compatible with ethanol. Oh, and yes I have tried 2t oil... inconclusive. In principle it may work, but there are a huge number of variables, and I didn't explore then much.

Now I buy E10 which goes into three carburetted bikes. The orange one has an occasional issue, typically after leaving the poor thing untouched for more than a month. The others have never missed a beat, even when using what turned out to be E28...

As a final remark, my brother in law has a 950SM too, and he's in the UK. He has just started having issues. I suggested he try this: http://www.frost.co.uk/ethomix-additive.html
which has good reports.

Good luck.

Cheers... Paul

This.

Forgetting the politics ethanol has the desirable effect of absorbing condensation and burning it. It also has been a component of http://toptiergas.com for a number of years as it helps to reduce intake tract deposits. It does not store well in wet climates so deal with that accordingly.

In my 1988 CBR600 E10 runs way better than E0. Around here I can either pay $1.00 a gallon more for non-branded 92 E0 with no additive pack or buy Chevron/Shell 92 E10 with PEA (Techron or V-Power). I choose E10 for the motorcycles during the riding season and E0 for the during the winter and for power equipment.

Ken

Living in California, I've had alcohol in my fuel for a very long time. I haven't noticed any issues at all, but all of my petrol engines get used regularly, even the chain saw and my wife's Vespa. If I expect any engines to sit for more than a few weeks, I add an ounce of Star Tron to the fuel.
J.

Agreed, this is the best practice

Draining the carb bowls on a 950 takes 30 seconds? Takes me 15-20 minutes just to get to the carbs.

We've had E10 in Australia for close to 10yrs I think and most stations sell everything from E10 through to 98 octane. I never put anything other than the best fuel (98) in my bike, if I pull up at a station and they don't have it, I ride to the next one 5km down the road just for the peace of mind that I've got decent fuel.

Shut off fuel lines, run bike till it dies, tip bike over on the left side, then the right side to get the remaining bit out of the bowls. A bit of spillage from the carb vent lines but nothing too bad.

My 690 ran noticeably better on E0 but I've been running E10 most of my life and never had any problems in carbed or FI'ed bikes. I don't let them sit more than a month typically without some fuel stabilizer though.

Fuel economy is lower with E10 though, by about 5-10%

Hmmm, the guy from corn country defends ethanol. Seem fishy to me

I have an '04 950, and the fuel tanks swelled up making it hard to replace them after removal. They were also jamming and chafing against the rear side covers. For a couple of years now I have been using only non ethanol fuel, called recreational fuel here in Florida, and my tanks now fit with no problems.

Ethanol is horrible shit and a bad idea...and THEN there are the political ramifications which doesn't make it any better.

Stay away from it if you can.

You put it gasoline and get less than a dollar/gallon for it...put it in an oak cask for a few years then it's worth a hundred times that. I'm dumb but not that dumb. Are the subsidies THAT good? You'd think the revenue/taxes from liquor alcohol would far outweigh paying subsidies for ethanol.

Star Tron goes in all my fuel !!! My diesel truck my tracker & all my small engines. Had to replace a carb on one of my chain saws because of small white corrosion particles clogged passage ways.