Holy crap, this "face plant" forum is so scary! *shudder* But, it's definitely the place to hear some ankle/knee stories Okay, I'll go first. So, my husband and I recently took a little 2up trip on the 950 (ktm adventure). It was fantastic! Unfortunately, there were a couple "incidents." 1) My left ankle got smashed. We were going around a rock coming out of Black Dragon Wash - his foot cleared and mine didn't. It hit hard enough so that Matt could feel the bike move. After a little while, I could walk on it, so I figured it wasn't broken. 2) 2 days later we had a low side crash in some slick mud (40 mph). my left foot hit the ground first and then the bike fell on my leg. I ended up with a stiff, swollen knee and could barely walk the next day. I could still ride pillion for the rest of the trip, though. We really wanted to finish the trip (western TAT) and I felt able to ride - all I have to do is sit there, right? - so I never saw a doc. Now that we're home, and I've been resting for about 3 weeks (although I haven't been trying to keep weight off the leg or anything), things still hurt and I'm starting to wonder if I should go get checked out. Our health insurance is really crappy (For $800 a month we have a $2500 deductible and we pay 30% of total costs) and I had wanted to change plans so I'm reluctant to get a bunch of pre-exsisting conditions added to my medical records. I'm slowly learning to ride in the dirt and I wreck a lot on my own, so I'm going to need that insurance! SO, tell me about your hurt/broken ankle. Was it smashed or did you land on it hard? how did you know it was broken? did it heal on its own or did you have to have surgery (did you need pins, screws, plates?). I saw AKDuc's post about his sprained ankle and hadn't realized that a sprain could look so awful (poor AKDuc and poor bike ). Also, tell me about your knee injuries. Matt has had an ACL reconstuction and 2 meniscus surgeries, and it doesn't seem like my problems are due to either of those. I have lots of bruising and tenderness (pain if I push on the area) on the inside of my leg, above and below the knee. And, if I stand too long or walk a few blocks, my knee gets extremely stiff and swollen. My ankle hurts more now than it did on the trip, and it's still bruised and swollen/misshapen. I've been reading stuff on the internets (soft tissue damage, bone chips, compartment syndrome, etc.) and it's freaking me out. I broke a metatarsal in my right foot a while back and never did anything about it. It took almost 2 years for it to heal, but it feels fine now. I was really hoping to do the same for these injuries. I'm hoping I just need more rest and maybe I simply need to be more careful about keeping weight off the leg for a while, but I don't want to be permanently damaged, either. Am I worrying too much? Should I give it more time? it's been almost 5 weeks for the ankle 4.5 weeks for the knee oh, and almost 4 weeks for my busted ribs (long story, in the ride report, if you're interested). I know docs can't do anything for ribs, so I'm just ignoring that one. But, as mentioned above, if I don't count time on the road, I've only been resting these injuries for 3 weeks. Hmmm. that doesn't sound very long. Can't believe I'm asking for medical advice on ADV Okay, let's hear the stories... (you can add your broken rib stories, too, if you like ) thanks! kelly
On june 8 this year, I had an bit of a mishap, that led me into a large concrete barricade at about 30-40kph...oops. That led to a spiral fracture of my fibia, or fibula...the small leg bone. Stupid mistake, and I should have known better. Had I leaned into the corner rather than staying upright and braking, I'd have probably made it through, but instead I locked up the rear brake, and smoked the barricade. So, I spent 7 weeks on crutches, and 6 weeks in a walking cast. First purchase once I was told I could ditch the crutches were some Aplinestars Tech 10's, which seemed too expensive before the accident, but worked out to just a small percentage of the wages I lost. Invest in good boots! Had I been wearing my new boots, I probably would have walked away. Edit: I avoided surgery only because it was a spiral fracture, had it been just an ordinary break, I would have needed surgery with plates and screws and things.
I was wearing some kind of alpinestars touring boot (Alphas?). They have a little hard disc on the outside ankle, but it wasn't quite enough. I wasn't expecting to crash much, since we were two up. I guess I could have worn my dirt boots, but they're just some crappy O'neal cheapies. Probably not much better. I thought I might have to walk a lot, so i wore the touring boots. OuttaHere - hope you're healing nicely. Yeah, guess I need some better boots if I'm going to keep riding with matt. At least now he knows my pegs stick out farther than his do...
They suck... My right ankle still hurts after braking the lateral about a year and half ago from time to time. I partially tore my LCL earlier this year it's going to need surgery probably but I'm putting it off until after the dual sports finish up for this year.
Due to former profession; I have many years of experience with surgical issues related to ignored medical injuries because folks were scared of insurance company and medical bills, My advice is simple but (flameable in USA) go to any county hospital at night after 11pm and tell them you are indigent / unemployed/ homeless/ etc..AND injured they are obligated by law to treat you. Cost will be passed on to county and US taxpayers but hey, that's the system we have in America. Just get yourself checked and ignore the hospital bills you will be getting in the mail. If you pay on bill then hospital will perpetually stalk/pursue you because it keeps the account open and active (cannot close account) therefore the hospital administrators cannot write-off the deliquent bill you've racked up. I'm gonna get so..flamed for sharing this info with you, Hospital writes your bills off and gets a healthy tax write-off for them from guess who??? See: When paying bills can hurt your credit @ http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/YourCreditRating/WhenPayingBillsCanHurtYourCredit.aspx or go this route http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_49/b4061001.htm if you do get bills/liens. http://www.patriotnetwork.info/liens_and_levies.htm and finally http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Should_you_write_off_your_medical_bills I'd also strongly suggest you search for new employer based on health benefits offered by employers; if you all plan to continue on pursuing our very dangerous passion/sport. I'll flame myself for sharing this true info to save the righteous who shall chime in, the trouble. Our health care systems broken (fact) but she needs to get treated NOW, not gouged by worthless insurance companies with ridiculous deductibles high premiums and yet low levels of coverage shes scared to use. Cool that you wanted to finish the ride, very cool and ballsy. I hope you heed this hot advice. Ride on sister, peace.
There are at least two problems associated with this approach. I won't address the ethical consideration, it either bothers you or it doesn't. If you don't respond to the hospital bills they will eventually write off your account but this doesn't mean you are done. Before they write it off it will be turned over to a collection company who will hound you for whatever period the hospital deems reasonable. This will become part of your credit report. When the collection period (usually one year) is done they will sell the delinquent account to one of a number of law firms who specialize in bad debts and they will file for a judgement. I have watched individual attorneys file hundreds of such claims in a single day. If the court rules against you, you may have your wages garnished. If you or your attorney doesn't appear to answer the charges the complainant will be granted a default judgement and you will be ordered to pay. Regarding the ankle - serious sprains can take longer to heal than broken bones. You could have ligament damage that may not show up on x-ray but can bother you for many months. I had a severe ankle sprain (basketball) that had me on crutches over three weeks and took nearly a year to fully heal.
See: http://www.bloggingawaydebt.com/2007/03/some-interesting-hospital-bill-tips-from-a-reader/ and http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:uCRbs5AUzh8J:www.csifinancial.com/news/StVincentEndingUseOfBillCollectorsAndRevampingPaymentPolicies.pdf+county+hospitals+write+off+deliquent+bills&hl=en&gl=us and http://www.ocregister.com/articles/health-herrick-bills-2090987-insurance-care Ethically it "may" be wrong but what is "wrong" anyway? http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-9225644.html SEE: County Programs for the Medically Indigent in California http://www.chcf.org/topics/view.cfm?itemID=123106 http://dch.georgia.gov/00/channel_title/0,2094,31446711_31959660,00.html If our systems so jacked that folks are scared to use their insurance they DO have, it's time for a bunch of citizens to motivate our legislators to actually make healthcare affordable for all, even her. Sure she may get dinged on credit report I emphasize the word MAY; but she will be better able to pay a bill 100% fit vs. being crippled as if it is 1832 and she can't get doc to come out to the farm. Bear in mind that most tickets dont go on your licenses some do but not all and all bad debt does not make it to the "oh my credit report" boogiemen (equifax, experian,etc....); plus as granny use to say...they can't get blood from a stone and working folks usually don't give a flip about a credit score but they are real Americans who contribute sons and daughters and blood and sweat into protecting our nations intrest only to be tricked/misled and gouged by far-away white collar businessmen, who REALLY do not give a flip about working class folks. Go get seen girl. Do what ya gotta do.
Wow, gogomccord - thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed reply. I appreciate all the insider info and encouragement and links, and if someone really needed to do this, I think you've given some valuable advice. HOWEVER, I cannot be that person. I chose to go on that ride and I knew there was risk involved; I have to take responsibility for my own medical bills. Frankly, I don't think anyone should even be on a 950 unless he or she is able and willing to cover those costs (I'm sure many of you were probably thinking that already). 2slow - I also thank you for your thoughful comment and additional information. Again, great advice to consider if someone needed to go that route. Sorry, I didn't mean for this to be about insurance or the health care system. edited to add: I only mentioned the insurance stuff to help explain why I am reluctant to see a doctor.
Not sure exactly I locked the front wheel up and ate shit. It occurred at some point during the fall / tumbling / sliding.
I hurt my ankle down in Mexico once. It turned blue from just behind the toes all the way up to my shin. I went to a Dr. about 3 months later because it was still swollen...he was like WTF you want me to do now:huh I sprained/tore it walking on some rocks. The rocks were placed around a pond, and set on plastic. I steped on a rock that was being held up by the plastic (the dirt/sand under it had been washed away). I had prepaid for scuba and other activites so I ate handfull of painkillers and sucked it up. 6 months later it was still swollen. Took about a year for the swelling to go away. I should have gone to a Dr as soon as I got back state side.
I was on a trail ride on a KLR-250 on new years day at Big Rock in Kentucky... nice day of riding, but it was a thin layer of ice over cold slick clay. And a KLR-250 does much better off road then you would think that it could, but it still has about a 60 pound weight problem, and a 17 RWHP power problem... Anyway, I also was given a neighbors old set of MX boots, and was wearing those. They were heavy and thick and more or less immobolized the ankle. Early in the day, I got 1/3rd of the way up a muddy hill, and had to abort. 17 RWHP, and DOT legal knobbies, and slick clay. Nuff said. So I was off the bike, trying to wrestle the thing to point back down hill... doing nothing special. Got in an awkward position, and felt a little "pop" in my left knee. It felt really wrong, but didn't actually hurt much. I stopped, took a deep breath, finished pointing back down, and kept riding. About 4 hours later (riding most of the time), I was on muddy single track at maybe 10 mph, and the back end kicked out (nothing unusual) and I planted my left foot. And off went the fireworks. I had the bike back upright and back on track fine, but the pain was so intense I just let off the throttle and fell over onto the deep grass. I remember laying there, thinking that my buddy on the XR-650 would not be able to see me as he came over the hill, and that I should move something or raise something so he doesn't hit me, but the pain was so bad that I just laid there trying to breathe. After 20 minutes or so, I got back up and rode more, but it was clear that I was seriously screwed up. Ironically, I did some of my best hill climbs after that, but only because the fear of the pain of having to put that leg down was so high that failure wasn't an option... I got home and iced it, figuring it would either get better in a week, or not, and no point in going to the Dr until it did or didn't heal. It was badly swollen, and stayed swollen for weeks, but did slowly get better. Really slowly. And it was Jan anyway, so I didn't have any reason to ride. About two months later, it was "kinda OK" so I took the bike on a short ride in a nearby field. Again, after a bit, the back end kicked out, and I dabbed that foot. And blammo, off went the fireworks again, and I started all over again. Stubborn as I am, even I couldn't deny that something was really wrong and not going to get better. A week later, I hobble into an orthopedic surgeon (Dr. Goldfarb, in Fairfield and Lebanon Ohio, who I highly recommend). I'm think he knew what the problem was when he saw me walk in the door, and I know he knew what the problem was as soon as he manipulated my knee. He said "you have a torn ACL and probably a torn meniscus, but the insurance companies won't let me do the surgery without an MRI first, so go get that, but I can tell you what it is going to say". And of course he was right. So what happened was that first "pop" was the ACL going. It didn't really hurt, but you could feel the whole joint get unstable, and you knew something was pretty wrong. The next two innocent foot dabs to stablise the bike likely both tore the meniscus. The ACL can be rebuilt (IMHO, go with the donor tissue option), but the meniscus is forever. They can remove the "crab meat" parts of it, which will help, but they can't put anything back, and most of it will never heal. We had a serious illness with a close family member, so I had to delay the surgery for another few months. When I finally got it, I was 6 months post injury. During that time, many muscles in that leg had begun to badly atrophy, and I adopted bad habits on how I walk and move in an effort to protect the joint (and avoid pain). Surgery was in July, and went amazingly well. Kudo's to Dr. Goldfarb. Physical therapy continues, and even after 2 a day joint excercises, and 2 days a week physical therapy (down to one now), the muscles around that joint are still measurably weak realative to the other knee. Oct 14th is my "you can ride dirt again" day of freedom, provide my healing continues to progress. Two week ago I did get released to ride the street bike again ("just don't crash" is what the Dr. told me), so the cold sweats are gone, but I really want to be on the dirt again. Lessons learned? 1) Boots that keep your ankle from flexing may protect the ankle, but just transmit more force to your knee. From now on, since I am not riding MX, I am sticking to flexible boots. Things can happen regardless, but for me, I'd rather let both the ankle and knee rotate and hope it gets far enough around that it pops free of whatever it hits before something bad happens. For that matter, I would choose a broken bone over a torn ligament... the bone may heal without surgery. 2) It's OK to wait a few days before rushing to a Dr, as an MRI can't tell much until the swelling starts to go down anyway, but the longer you wait the worse your recovery will be. I have 6 months of atrophy to undo now. Had I gone to the Dr. on Jan 15th (Jan 1st was the injury), I could have been riding again by the middle of the summer. As it is now, my season begins in Oct, which isn't the best in Ohio :/ 3) You can make heavy street legal dirt bikes work in the dirt... but you don't have to. And heavy bikes are just as likely to hurt you when you are off them as when you are on them. Remember, my injury happened standing beside the bike on a hill . While I was crippled, I sold the KLR 250, and bought a craigslist KDX-200 in a bucket, and spent my rehab time completely restoring it. As a result, my bike lost about 60 pounds, and doubled its horsepower. I have a street bike (Buell XB9SX) and a dirt bike (KDX-200) now... I'm not trying to make one bike play both roles badly. I realize this is Advrider herasy, but I'm getting older and honest now. 4) Little coolers with a built in water pump and water lines that circulate cold water through a big pad you can wrap around your knee are better then percocet by a long shot. You can't go anywhere with the cooler, but you don't really want to anyway, and you don't end up in a drugged stupor with fringes of paranoia and chronic constipation. I *hate* narcotics. Costs? My insurance did a fair job. Bills keeps rolling in, but all in all it's not bad. The MRI was expensive, I think it was billed at like $6000, but he insurance company "negioated" it down to something under $2000. No doubt that dance was to cover uninsured people using the hospital services... how many exactly am I supposed to pay for before I am allowed to get my services? I think the actual surgical procedure was $2000 or so, and there were lots of other bills along with that. None of the physical therapy bills have come in yet, I'm guessing they will be pushing $100 a session (they are about an hour), and I'll have a $20 copay for each. That'll add up as well, as you go 2 times a week for the first couple months, then once a week for the next couple months. There. More then you wanted to know
:eek1 Eek. Okay, thanks for the stories! I just made an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon. I'm still hoping these injuries will heal on their own, but I'll find out for sure on thursday morning. urbanXJ, it sucks that you didn't even hurt your ankle doing something fun You gotta love mexico - we met a guy in la paz and he tore his ACL falling into a hole as he was walking around town (Although, to be fair, our last crash was from riding into a huge hole in Oregon. The owner of the property had dug some septic test holes and they were hidden in the tall grass. Guess that's almost as bad). reepicheep - my husband (matt) had a very similar experience with his ACL. He originally tore it putting his foot down while riding and then blew it out completely playing football. Due to insurance problems and delays, he had a ACL reconstruction about a year after the original accident and had a very long recovery. He's had 2 meniscus surgeries since - our costs for the last one were in the neighborhood of $8K. Your decsription of "crab meat" is perfect - that's exactly how it looked on the films! Anyway, because of matt's ACL experience, we were pretty sure I hadn't completely torn a ligament and that's part of why I felt it was okay to keep riding. I didn't have the "pop," I didn't have the excruciating pain (it hurt, but I never screamed in agony), and my knee seemed kind of stable. I guess it was more wishful thinking than anything. Hope I don't regret waiting...
Broke my ankle last year, falling down my porch stairs ( slipped on ice ) The first emerg doc I saw ( no charge -one hour wait ) the next day suggested surgery using pins and a plate. Second one ( no charge ) an hour later said the ankle appears well aligned. Casted it. replaced with a Goretex cast ( $120.00 ) a week later after further xrays ( no charge ). Went on a holiday in Costa Rica, returned 3 weeks later to the fracture clinic ( 2 hour wait ) and had a plastic walking cast ( $115 ) fitted. Total 6 weeks in a cast . No problems since. We pay some hefty taxes here, but when there's been trouble, it's been worth it.
wow, mimic - I've heard good and bad things about Canadian health care, but it sounds like your experience was great. Lucky!
Okay, so yesterday I finally went to see an orthopedist... Whoo hoo! I don't need surgery! Obviously, I can't say that I recommend this to anyone else - BUT, in my particular case, being irresponsible totally paid off. If I had gone in to see the orthopedist right away, my ankle and knee would have been so swollen, bruised and painful he would have been compelled to take Xrays AND an MRI. Because I waited so long (over 5 weeks), most of my injuries had already healed and the swelling and bruising had gone down enough so that he could easily manipulate my ankle and knee and rule out ligament damage and unhealed fractures. He said he could still take Xrays, if I wanted to (no thanks), but that he was okay with not taking them. He told me to continue taking it easy, but to add in some exercises and stretching to restore range of motion. He offered to send me to a physical therapist, but said that I could just do the exercises on my own. And, if I still have pain in 3 weeks, I have to go back for another exam. The only bad thing was that lying on my back for the knee exam was just killing my ribs. I got stuck there for a minute and couldn't get up. I usually ask Matt to help me when that happens at home, but I wasn't about to ask the doc for help. The doc raised an eyebrow at my struggling. Then, when he told me lie face down so he could show me another knee stretch, I had to tell him that I had also busted my ribs in a different accident. He let me know, in a nice way, that I am a complete idiot if I continue to ride. The doc HATES motorcycles of all kinds and was very disapproving, but he didn't give me too much of a lecture. And, at least he was really good about only writing down the absolute minimum information on my chart and he never even mentioned "motorcycle" in his notes, as per my request (I told him how I wanted to change my insurance and he understood). In a way, it was almost too bad that it worked out. I think it only reinforced my bad habit of avoiding doctors! But, it was totally worth the $35 co-pay to find out that my ankle and knee are fine. Now I can stop worrying. I hope to get back to my dirt lessons (from matt) in november, so you might see me back in "face plant" in a couple months!
My experience that telling the docs I crashed a dirt bike (again) normally get's met with some disapproval. Not sure why I seem to be a good revenue stream for them, and at least where I am there are normally way more kids in there with fucked up knees and shit from sports than moto's but whatever. As long as they keep taking my money and putting me back together i'll deal with it.
