Sibirsky Extreme 2012 - The Toughest Ride of Them All

I disagree

Just cause they have money, doesnt mean they want to ride motorcycles through the mud.

If you look somewhere like Kazakhstan, where the population is about 50% Kazakh, 35% Russian ... All the guys with crazy money are ethnic Kazakh. The police, govt officials, immigration guys, customs guys are all ethnic Kazakh. Yet almost none of the bikers from Kazakhstan are Kazakh. The bikers are almost all from the 35% of the population that is ethnic Russian. Ethnic Kazakhs want to drive new air conditioned land cruisers and have a cushy government job. The Russians in Kazakhstan are happy being engineers, mechanics, entrepreneurs and riding motorbikes.

Despite a similar political environment for the last 100 years, the cultural ambitions of the two main ethnic groups in Kazakhstan are very different.

If Kazakhs prefer a government car and have no interest in motorcycling (despite making good money), then its very possible that a huge country like China with its own cultural momentum and no real dirt biking or adventure travel background is going to embrace adventure motorcycling. If culturally they dont get it, or culturally its not cool to them, then its just not going to happen.

Is it just me or does Iker not sound just like an older Speedy Gonzales (bugs bunny cartoon fame) when he is crossing the bridge? aribaa

China ride reports:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588361

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492852

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=456465

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759567

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=690667

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=655066

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=614181

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486945

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668622

Interesting. It seems to me to be a bit of ... pardon the saying ... but 'nuevo riche' syndrome. Anyone who (and whose culture) first tastes money, seems to want to spend it on luxury. Those cultures who have been through that cycle (in recent memory) seem to have a bit of wander lust. I can completely understand it.

Very interesting perspective. Thanks for that.

I dont think its that complicated. I think maybe they just cant touch the ground from a 650 Adventure bike. Sorry bad joke

just what my employer needed

thank you! gonna read through these.

thank you Walter, as well, for your comments. indeed, cultural factors weigh heavily - look at the statistically improbable representation of Poland in the ADV community.

Occum's razor again reveals the truth. I am the same height as your average Chinese person and my feet dangle from every dual sport except a couple of the 250cc bikes. Plus for many years previous, there weren't many paved roads or privately owned modern cars in China...so maybe the Chinese have had enough "adventure" while riding their motorcycles in the mud, snow, dirt, heat, cold, etc.

That's not true of the younger generation. I'm six four and a half and when I was in northern China it wasn't uncommon to meet guys my height or even taller. I was in an elevator once with guys from the national basketball team.

they made me feel puny.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=618066

My ex was born in 1958 during the Great Leap Forward and grew up during the Cultural Revolution. This was years before China opened to the west, almost all Chinese lived in the countryside and they were starving. Millions and millions of them in fact. This is within the living memory of many Chinese.

So it should not be a shock that the number one goal of any right thinking Chinese is to get the h*** out of the country, move to the city and make some MONEY!!!!! So wilderness 'adventure' doesn't have much appeal. Too many people lived it.

This is one of my all-time favorite ride reports, and it is from China:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=371656

As an aside, unless people really enjoy dealing with dragon ladies like Rodd or are on a tight budget, you might want to stay in the big cities between Irkutsk and Moscow (Krasnoyark, Novosibirsk,Kemerovo, Ekaterinburg, etc. etc.). Most of them are about a day apart and especially on a weekend the nightlife and scenery is rather good. The riding in this part of Russia is boring as sin, you might as well have something to look forward to at night other than a scowling dragon lady.

Thank you very much for your time/reply Walter. Yes, I'll keep/try my dream come true. Will keep you in touch.

Visit Sri Lanka in one day...

Thanks Walter for your continuous willingness to share

(truncated in the interest of brevity)

And for the link also

now back to the regular program, between bad shocks and the dragon lady we just don't know where to turn to for our daily fix any more.

Went from Montana to Peru fall 2012

Thanks for that Mario. The word might well be Pierogi- but these weren't pies, but doughnut-type things and seem to have been deep fried? Unfortunately the lady stuck them in a microwave to heat up and they came out pretty soggy and tasteless. C'est la vie.All part of the journey

Anyway...where was your mother with all the above when I needed her?

I have not made a advrider report from the S.America trip yet. The plan is to make it when I've got more time.
XC: Bought a used XC from an advrider Inmate in Montana, US. That is were the my America trip started.
Other travelers were going on all kind of bikes. BMW G650, F800, 1200GS, some older Suzuki and Honda stuff. I did not see one single Xchallenge or Xcountry.
My trip from Norway to Russia were supposed to be a solo ride, but I met pepole and rode some alone and some with others. The America part of my trip I rode with two friends for most of the time. We also met others which joined us for some days/weeks. Gringo trail: We did drive more on the Pan American highways than off it, but we tried to get off and do dirt roads.
We started in September ending before christmas. I would say that you should have at least 6 months from USA to Ushuaia and to get somewhere where you can ship your bike from. We had too little time and we could not stop and visit all places we wanted.

With respect to China, I agree ... when they have grown up with oxen on dirt roads, living in leaky shacks, and now they have the chance for superhighways, modern apartments and european cars, thats what they will aspire too. It will be a generation or two of living with the comforts of life before they look to start fantasizing about dirt tracks, cramped sleeping under a sheet of nylon and non luxurious means of transport (thumper motorcycles).

Its a hard sell to people new to modern luxury goods ... Hi Mr Wang, I know you are a good Chinese dentist and have a nice apartment in Shanghai and a new Audi, but dont you really want to use your spare cash to buy an off road motorcycle and wrestle it up rocky muddy tracks in the middle of Siberia, with no good food, camping in accommodation you have to haul with you in mosquito infested swamps, crossing bridges where one mistake could cost you your life, and bathing in and drinking freezing river water.

He will obviously say "no ... what you suggest is ridiculous. I would rather buy a nice watch for myself, a Chanel handbag for my wife and a family holiday to Paris."

Cause from where he has come from, from his cultural perspective, that defines achievement. Thats what makes him feel he has achieved something worthwhile and what his peers also feel is a worthwhile achievement.

We on ADV obviously come from a different cultural perspective. For us, a worthwhile achievement might be the pursuit of the kind of freedom that stems from riding a motorcycle across foreign lands. For us that may be what is more meaningful than a new Audi.

But I dont think its a blanket thing based on level of economic development. What is interesting is while Orientals like Chinese seem to shun the idea of rough adventure travel, other cultures from a similar economic position embrace it. Russians have always loved motorcycles, and the comparison with the Kazakhs in Kazakhstan is a good example. Economically similar, yet the Russians love it, and the Kazakhs dont. Compare India with China. India is a decade or two behind China in economic development and yet they do embrace the adventure motorcycling concept. Its not only economic ... there is a definite deep cultural element in there too as to who will like it, and who will not.

I say deep, because I am often amazed that even in a common western setting there is such a diversity in cultural preferences and ambitions. If you look at somewhere like California which is a nice ethnically diverse part of the world ... you will note that generally Oriental and Jewish preferences are for kids to get mega educated. Culturally they dont value sporting prowess the same way as white americans or african americans. To them, being a violin or piano maestro with a masters degree is what life is all about. They dont grow up wanting to be quarterbacks, prom queens or cheerleaders. Even tho the Chinese have been there since 1849 ! Still totally different cultural ambitions. And then look at how the Chinese use those educations. The Chinese mentality is to lay low - to be invisible outside the Chinese community. Despite the huge oriental population in California, going back over 150 years, how many Chinese politicians are there? Over 15% of California is Asian in origin, yet what percentage of elected politicians? Its not because they are discriminated against, its because they dont want to be public. They dont want to put themselves forward and face public scrutiny. They culturally dont subcribe to democracy, which is a very western concept - despite our politicians saying its a universal concept. They dont think those in power should be debased by public scrutiny. To the oriental mind, if you are in power, then you deserve respect. You may be subject to limited scrutiny but only from your peers, not from the general public. How many of the Oriental community in California actually even vote? Despite being there the best part of 2 centuries, they still do not embrace democracy. Because culturally its not their thing. Despite superficially having the same culture as other Americans ... somewhere deep down there are cultural preferences and pressures acting on people that are not always visible. Drummed in from birth. So even somewhere like California, kids will grow up having a different propensity to enjoy or want a particular sport / hobby like basketball, violin playing, or even adventure motorcycling depending on what cultural background they had in their formative years - and I think those cultural influences are much stronger than economic influences in explaining why some peoples will be more likely than others to pursue or crave freedom in this manner, that we love.

ponchiki, gospoda, pontchiki!
may be a doughnut-type as well as a ball-type (softest balls in that case for the whole thread )

Ahhh Motoreiter...as a Russian you probably see it that way, as it's familiar to you and you've maybe done the journey a number of times?
I can only say that looking through my westerners eyes and on my first trans-Russian odyssey I was enchanted by the changing landscape, the clash between the modern energy of the developing economy and the traditional culture, the local guys riding their old 2T motos to work in the mornings, against the super high-tech consumer stores in the cities.
I haven't seen a "proper" rustic haystack in the UK for 40 years ..all the hay/sileage is baled into huge round bales by tractor drawn machines. Just riding along and seeing these things made me smile for something I'd forgotten about.
Regarding the cities-we'll get there in a day or two, and as for dragons you'll not be surprised to see there were darlings too.

Please believe me, none of my comments are a criticism of your country. I love its energy, its different flavours and absolute sense of history, identity and direction.
Insh'allah I hope to return next year.

Rod, you have never mentioned his country in your posts - let alone criticise it.
Like me, although living here, he was not from here. Try further west. Far, far further west than me even. :)