Baby Tiger 675 Please...

After a demo ride on a 800 Triumph Tiger ...great bike...but too much motor and money for me right now ...and I also have ridden a Speed Triple 1050 ...wow...way too much power for what I want...and also had a demo ride on a fantastic Street Triple 675 ... I think a 675 Tiger XC or a 675 Tiger Sport ...is a great idea for that wonderful motor...Tuned for torque and around 400 lbs. ... under 10,000 dollars... Please Triumph Please...Build a Baby Tiger 675...

The 800 is the same block as the 675; it's just stroked out to an 800.

Lower redline, but more torque, to make it more tractable to an ADV / dual sport type of ride.

The cost of putting in a 675 engine into the Tiger would be the same as the 800, and give a much peakier powerband.

Don't waste your time hoping for it, it'll never happen. Triumph would see no point in building such a bike. It would be the exact same thing as a Tiger 800, just with a peakier powerband that's not suited to ADV purposes. There's also no way they could bring it in at 400lbs without seriously cutting back on the other parts of the bike that make it heavier than a Street Triple (ie, the frame, suspension, wheels, etc).

If you want a cheaper, less powerful ADV bike, buy a Wee-Strom. Or just find yourself a nice used Tiger 800 and go easy on the throttle.

--mark

OP is a prospect for a Kawasaki Versys.

Or yeah, a DL650 V-Strom. Or one of the new Honda 500's.

If the 800 is more bike than you're comfortable with then get some time on a smaller bike and hone the skills. Went you're to the point you're 'wanting more' the XC will seem perfect.

That the XC will do 40mph is first gear does some kind of excessive, doesn't it?

My Tiger riding buddies and I have had this conversation since the 675 came out....build a Tiger Cub, more off road with a triple motor, the 675 motor.

I agree, the motor is ideal but the chassis would have to be lighter than the 800 for this "Cub" to be successful at its purpose.
It seems KTM has the title for making light weight off road machines. Maybe Triumph could talk to those Austrians about how to pull this off. I mean when you take the 1190 Adventure and make it weigh as much as a Tiger 800, plus it puts out a 150 hp at 478lbs. or so....you are doing something light!

I'm not sure Triumph is willing to enter the ring to take on KTM or even BMW/Husqvarna, the models being a 690 and a 650 Terra...but this segment of the adventure market seems to be hot in certain areas of the US...but I'm no expert, just a dreamer .

Just get Street Tripple :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PBsH4Xry9U

Check your facts. The 1190 Adventure weighs about 40lbs more than the Tiger -- 518lbs, not 478.

Those are singles.

The reason Triumph doesn't build a 400lb seriously dirt-oriented Tiger is, in part at least, because they don't have an engine to leverage for it. If they wanted to seriously compete in that market, they would need to design an all-new lightweight single- or twin-cylinder engine. The 675 triple isn't light enough -- it's nearly exactly the same engine as the 800, just with a shorter stroke, so if it were that light, the 800 would be too. Plus its powerband is peaky, as previously discussed -- that's why they stroked it to 800cc for use in the Tiger.

Bear in mind that even the KTM 950 Super Enduro, which is by far the most dirt-oriented of the large multi-cylinder ADV bikes, weighs around 450lbs once you add gas/etc.

Sure it would be nice if Triumph decided to put out a really dirt-oriented, lightweight Tiger. But it just doesn't make business sense for them to do it. There's a reason that not even KTM still makes such a bike, having discontinued the Super Enduro a few years ago.

--mark

Yep, I guess my point agrees with you Mark, this would be a niche bike...

As far as weight goes, that's a slippery fish, so many weight's out there to choose from...this is from a cycle world article:

"No corners were cut in the braking department, where massive Brembo 320mm front discs and radial-mount calipers are standard equipment. KTM announced a claimed dry weight of 467 pounds. The R version is slightly heavier due to additional engine and tank protection."

I also agree that we won't see this bike from Triumph, just have to continue riding mine and loving it.
I'm also looking hard at an Explorer XC when it gets here in white.

That's dry weight. They list wet weight at 518lbs. The Tiger's wet weight is 473lbs. Both are the manufacturer's claimed weight, so in reality they're both probably heavier.

Point is, nice as it would be to have a multicylinder dirtbike under 400lbs, it's just not realistic. Aprilia tried it with the RXV, but that was a much smaller twin in a true dirtbike frame, and that engine was notoriously high-maintenance. In all honesty, the best candidate for the kind of bike you're thinking of (and which I agree would be cool) would be a Suzuki SV650 platform. There's an inmate on here who built one.



Build thread here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288338

Too bad Suzuki never saw fit to build a bike like this themselves, or at least a seriously stripped down V-Strom.

--mark

Start with a Street Triple, work up a subframe that has a hard luggage mount, add *slightly* taller, cushier suspension (which is what, different forks and a swingarm alteration?), tack on a bit of Tiger Sport-style fairing/windscreen and you'd have a classy little Versys competitor. Maybe provide for electrical accessories too... Basically Tiger Sport-ify the Street Triple to make an entry level/small size ADV-styled machine. It's a shame Triumph doesn't try this, but the result would be too close to the 800 to make a difference.

Even so, I'd buy one. Actually, I'd just settle for hard luggage on the Street Triple...

Or just.......

When I was waiting at my dealer on my Tiger's 6k mi service, I was talking to one of the sales guys there pretty much about this same exact thing.

Since Triumph has admitted that they were specifically targeting the F800GS with the Tiger 800s, I felt that that Triumph should come out with a Tiger Cub (same idea) to go after the G650GS /F700GS market as well. Slightly smaller engine, lower seat and ride height, less intimidating for shorter riders.

My wife really likes the Tiger 800, but it's too tall for her even with the low-low seat, and I'm not comfortable enough to do the suspension mods to lower the ride height 1" on the 800 for it to be comfortable for her. She actually was comfortable getting the Tiger 1200 off the side stand at the dealer, but she makes that bike look huge...

She doesn't mind the old F650GS or the new F700GS, but after my experiences with my F800ST, I don't think I'd want to get another bike based off of that same engine.

I agree with your statements.

Anyway, tripples are not ideal motors for off road, as explained before. The 800 XC has the longer stroke version of the 675. It is the 675 bike you are talking about. And I have one and have to say, even with the longer stroke, it still doesn't have the torque profile that is ideal for dirt riding. It's just a characteristic of triples and in-line-4's, they are better suited for the road. For dirt, singles and twins. They are lighter and deliver better torque at low RPM.

You give your own answer to the issue when you say the result would be too close to the 800. Why? Because Triumph already did it. The 800 roadie is what you described - it started with a 675 but they did better than adapt frame, add suspension travel and swingarm, etc. They started it from scratch around the modified 675 motor and it is a great bike. Except from the natural challenges of triple motors on dirt, it is an awesome machine. Better than an in-line-4 would be.

The torque curve of the 800 is flat from around 3500 to 9k. Flat. Hooks up pretty well on the dirt. An inline four, at least modern production ones I've seen, the torque curve looks like an upside down 'u'.

The issue is not how flat it is.

Installing lowering links on a tiger is super easy. Don't let a 30 minute easy job stop you from owning a great bike for your wife

I have an XC with lowering links, a low seat and I wear Daytona MStar boots for added height. I enjoy riding my Tiger but agree that a Cub would reach a market of shorter riders. I would trade my Tiger XC in a heartbeat for a smaller stature Tiger Cub.

Don't go giving Triumph a bunch of bad ideas to change the Tiger.

I'm 6'3" tall and I like how tall the Tiger is. There's other bikes for short riders, and ample aftermarket solutions for shorter people that must have a Tiger for whatever reason.

Changing the 800/800XC to appeal to shorter riders is a bad idea, IMO.

And I don't think Triumph has the market experience to build a large single cylinder or 500-700cc double that would compete with the vast array of options in that market. They're not going to build a new triple from the ground up to get into a 660 or 675 displacement market, especially if dirt torque is an engine requisite.

The Tiger 800/XC occupies a rarified location in the market, with only BMW as a competitor... especially with KTM vacating the 990 from the nearby range of offerings. The BMW is a cramped little bugger compared to the Tiger. They're dramatically different and appeal to completely different riders.

Which BMW is cramped? The F800GS?
Lay off the pipe

I have the Tiger 800XC, by the way and I know it is similar to the BMW.

The data below is for a 6-foot tall, 32 inseam rider.



and these data confirm it.