MOTUS: New Sport Tourer built in Alabama

He's the ultimate contra-indicator. If you disagree you're probably on the right side of the point.

No one is choosing between Motus and some other bike, because they think it might be a better value. You either want it or you don't.

Some guy came through here, said I might pick one up, I'd like to check it out. He'll probably still get it.

A proper sport touring machine requires a belt drive by definition.

You know, there are some people in Canada who'd probably buy this. Exchange rates are at par, and yet they get fucked by every other brand by about 20-30%.

So there, I've sold three of them.

What is the cost of ownership as opposed to a moose?

Uh... well, I'm NOT getting one (and was considering) as my K1200R is a better value and very likely a better machine. It's backward logic, but just as valid as I would not have both.

Well, in one way it kind of makes me mad, but it's just bidness. Maybe they already had a 1000 firm commitments from guys just like you, and found the price point that would drop 80% because they only wanted to make 200 bikes. I suspect they've already sold however many bikes they need, to do the first run. My understanding from the beginning was that it was going to be a bike for like, movie stars.

Fair enough.

But, is there any bike (other than the K12R) that this would NOT be true of?

That is, is there a bike that is better value and very likely a better machine than your K12R?

Just asking ...

Yes. The K1300R. But I can't get it in the states. Of course, this is partly a subjective call. But I have had a lot of machines and my K12R does everything I want from a bike, plus has ESA and ABS, which I want, but that's just me. Nevertheless, when I'm buying a bike in the higher price world I expect it to be innovative as well as fast and competent.

I think this: the world doesn't need Ferrari anymore. (Nor Aston Martin, Maserati etc.), it just wants them. There was a time, however, if you wanted an innovative, brilliantly handling car, you had to spend some serious money for a Porsche or something. But, those days are over. The C6 Corvette, properly equipped (like with magnetic suspension) will keep up with or even crush most, much more expensive "exotics". The mag suspension (designed by Cadillac and, I believe, a/c Delco) is one of the most brilliant suspension innovation in years. And, of course, is now licensed by Ferrari. Get it? GM creates a technology that Ferrari needs to borrow so it can keep up with Cadillac. Only a slight exaggeration. Times have changed. So, if I am going to spend a bunch of money on a bike, it better be technologically innovative and not just "cool". IMHO.

This is how you can spot a troll a mile away. Opinions are always stated as fact. Usually the 'facts' are stated to be inflamitory for the troll's amusement.

lusty is a one brand, narrow focus, shifting opinion troll interested in motorcycles. Keyboard commando who wouldn't dare spout his worthless facts in a group of more than himself.

Gotta be more specific. White or brown?

You funster you.

I can't be sure - but I don't think Motus is planning on even making 500 bikes the first year. And I'm guessing they don't need to steal Multi buyers exclusively. Again - just a guess - but my thoughts are that there will be a few fans of 'Merican bikes that will come over and take the plunge to the sportier side of riding - plenty of rich Motor Company faithful begging for a sportier ride IMHO... I'll bet a lot of American muscle car folk will love this as well - plenty motorheads out there with cash to burn.

I can't help but laugh when a bunch of us sit around and speculate what they need to net to stay in business. None of us know, none of us will probably ever know - why even bother speculating? Who knows what their design, dealer, upstart, prototype, media, etc. costs were? Who knows what returns their investors are expecting? Who knows how soon they're expecting to turn a profit or pay off investors?

I'm absolutely positive that they thought long and hard about price. I suppose their competition with other bikes isn't really based on price - I'm guessing it's more that people will want something that original, new, and different. If you really compare this to a ZX-14, R12RS, etc, - I'm guessing you're not their target customer. Don't like it? Don't buy it. They're not forcing, not even asking you to buy it. Capitalism baby - go and buy a different bike if you think it's a better buy for you - as they even publicly stated on their FB page to a pissed off fan.

If the bike doesn't sell as well as they need - the price can always come down. It's much easier to move the price down than up. Don't get me wrong - I really want one of these bikes, and was hoping/wishing/praying for the MSRP to be a bit lower, but I'm not shocked at the price, and I'm certainly not insulting the company for their decision.


As far as the chain/shaft debate:
I used to really like shaft drives - until my K12S's shit itself. Add me to the list of 'full circlers' that once again don't mind a chain. Simple, cheap, easy, visible, and available. Also, chains are light (as there's so much complaining going on about the heft of modern ST's) and have the best power transmission. I'm not really set either form; both have their allure (I'll probably just exclude BMW's from my wishlist).

I love it - I want one. The bike felt great to sit on, sounds amazing, hauls ass, should have low maintenance, and is run by a great group of people. I'm a fan - I just need to find another 20k laying around...

Sorry, but you can't just move the price from 30k to 20k. They have committed and it's just not reasonable on any level to reclaim that. To put it simply, it just raises too many questions. First, the customers will ask why? What's wrong with the bike? Second, what do they say to the people who paid 30k? You see?

My understanding - and I'm always willing to be proven wrong - is that they priced the bike in part on the fact that Harleys sold for 30+. If that's true, it's stupid. Dumb because alot of Harleys sell for alot less, and also try to haul a Harley owner off his chrome.

This is supposed to be a Sport-Tourer and like bikes all sell for less than 20K. BMW, Triumph, Ducati, Motoguzzi, the main competition all compete for less than 20K. And those are bikes not to scoff at. I'd love to buy American, as would a lot of others, but this is retro to a time America couldn't compete. This is a throw back to when the Japanese bikes kicked ass, except an American bike is throwing down the challenge and there are a bunch of European AND Japanese bikes in the fray. Sad, but a fact of life. They might meet their goal of 300 bikes, then what?

Yep.

And is the price even that bad?

The "R" model, at $37K, is $15K more than a Multistrada 1200S Pikes Peak in the US.

The Pikes Peak has mainly cosmetic (paint and carbon fibre panels) upgrades on the generic Multistrada "S" touring model, costs an extra $2K and drops the panniers and centrestand. Point is, people buy them - and then buy panniers for them.

Pikes Peak:



MST-R



So, the basic spec level is similar. Ohlins NIX fork, check. Ohlins TTX shock, check. Okay, there is no from-the-saddle suspension adjustment on the Motus but every adjuster is in easy reach and there are no servo motors to fail - a common source of complaint on the Multi boards.

Brembo monobloc brakes - oh yeah, the Multi isn't quite there with those. Forged wheels - hmm, the Multi makes do with cast. Not a big deal in either case from a performance viewpoint, but costly if you wanted to go there.

Panniers are part of the Motus package, and there's a full sized bag either side (unlike the Multi's ex-factory set-up), and they are a generic product, so relatively cheap to replace, but still look okay.

Centrestand stock on the Motus. And it looks like owners will be able to change the oil with bike on the centrestand. (Unlike Multi owners, who must remove the centrestand from the bike in order to get the old oil out. :huh Strange, but apparently true.)

ABS and traction control? The Duc is a clear winner here.

Engine? Well, Duc engines feel great and go well, but the Motus does have an extra 450cc and 35 more hp.

So, the Motus justifies an extra few grand on spec alone.

Then there are the service costs. Valve check and cam belt change every 15,000 miles for the Duc. Very conservatively, $500 each time. Nil for the Motus. If you do 15,000 miles a year for 10 years, that's $5K.

I know you have to have the $37K to begin with. Just saying that as a value for money proposition, the Motus doesn't look a hell of a lot worse to me than that Duc. (And I like Ducs.)

Actually, yes, you can. The numbers you provided are an extreme example, and a drop of 1/3 is unrealistic, but the Honda VFR1200 MSRP's at 16 grand, and now they sell for 11 at dealers all over. :huh No questions were raised - they just didn't sell b/c they were overpriced. I'm not saying Motus should or will do such a price adjustment, but they can. A drop of $5,000 would certainly not be surprising - and I doubt anyone that already bought one would make a big fuss over it. In fact, they would probably bring in more customers and dealers, assuming they can produce enough bikes. Rebates and discounts that big are offered all the time w/o officially dropping the MSRP. EDIT: Come to think about it - Moto Guzzi's 8v Griso got a tweak and official MSRP price drop of $2,000 this year as well when they came out with the SE.

Not that I'm an expert, but I've never heard this - is this based on internet banter or something that someone from Motus actually said?

Dropping the price to what most were expecting ($20-25k) would be a $6k to 11k drop in price for the base model. I don't think a $2k drop is going to do much to add people to the buyer list. The price is going to have to hit a particular price point to get more people interested (sub $25k?). A major drop in price instantly devalues the bikes you sold. I know I would be pissed to buy in early only to have my bike worth much less a year or two later. You can't take any features away from the bike to justify the lower price as it's stripped down out of the box. You can't throw in a bunch of the 'extras' as they don't really add that much value. $28k with all the 'extras' thrown in? I'd have to really think hard about that one, but it's still a tough nut to crack.

I think they either spent way too much money on R&D or totally blew the price point. Going from $25k base to $31k base cut out a very large portion of riders (like myself) who were very seriously looking to clear out the garage for MST space. That extra $6k is just too hard to swallow on a bike like this. That's a Multistrada and used Griso money.

The VFR's price had to drop because the bikes were sitting on show room floors. Motus doesn't have that problem right now. They have more orders than they intended on filling this year (original target was 200 py, but they have been kind of hush of late). They also have the ability to slow down production if sales start to taper off as they are hand built from parts suppliers.

The new Griso price drop to 12,500 was based on the weak dollar and the fact that no one paid $14k for a griso except for a few who had to have the SE. Most paid much less on year old models or paid a bunch less on used models (like I did). The Griso isn't worth $14k, but the SE is for sure worth $12k in my eyes. That starts taking sales from other naked models...something Guzzi needs right now. Then the NTX hits the floors this year, then the Cali1400 next. Should be an interesting couple of years for Guzzi.

I don't know what *most* were expecting, but I was guessing 25-30k.

I agree - but 2k on a 14k motorcycle (Griso), in terms of percentage, is suddenly over 4k on a bike like the Motus - that's a game changer a few people, granted, not for most. Again, not that they will have to even consider it.

Again, just shooting from the hip here, but even if they wanted to, I doubt they produce enough bikes to satiate the masses. I'm guessing they keep the price and quality high and keep the volume low, and they knew they were going to do this from the beginning. I don't think it was a bike intended for the masses.

Agreed. That's not to say it won't happen though. Just think of all the (dozen?) VFR12 owners that bought the bike at 16k++. Sucks for them, but they prob still love their bike. Just more reason to keep it long term, I guess.

Agree again, but we may not be the target customers, I guess.

Correct - I think I wasn't clear when I said the price could drop... I didn't mean to say that it could/would drop prior to the first run - I mean it'll drop if it sits and doesn't sell. With the huge drop in what VFR's are going for, the line is either doomed, or Honda's eating some of the loss. Dealer's will obviously not order more with this sales performance, and I imagine Motus will have to do the same thing if bikes don't sell and they want to survive... but...

That's fantastic news, imo, and a big congrats to the company if that's true (not calling you a liar, I just hadn't hear that before!). When I grew up reading about Corvettes, which I love, GM would always say they were sold out for the year... they I'd see them sitting on showroom floors. Later I learned that "sold out" meant "sold out to dealers." Not sure if that applies here or not - just sayin'.

Well - unless slowing down production would put them under. I don't know the numbers, but speeding up production with less profit is the other side of the curve, that's all I'm sayin'.

Was 14k due to the weak dollar, then went to 12k due to a) the dying Euro and b) nobody wants a 14k naked bike in states, I thought... Maybe I got it wrong though. :huh

Amen.