Soar power for my cabin

[Flashmo]

Originally Posted by Tweaker

For <$10, a simple DC analog meter will tell you all you really need to know. Why do you think you need data logging?

A DC analog meter, as shown in your photos, is pretty worthless for monitoring batteries. When 12.70v is a 100% charged battery and 12.20v is a 50% charge...those meters will show 12v with the batteries in either state. There are analog meters that could do the job, but they would be large, expensive, single function devices. It would be as successful as looking for 5th order harmonics in a building using a handheld analog meter.

Part of the question, though not specifically stated, is...do I NEED the data logging? It comes with the lower priced meter/charger display, and is the slightly more expensive meter without the logging better overall?

[hugemoth]

I don't know anything about the Morningstar meter but I own one of the first Trimetric meters made. I bought it from Ralph (owner of Bogart Engineering) himself, I think it must have been 1991 at the solar energy expo in California. It's been online and working without a glitch ever since, over 20 years. It's reliable and accurate.

Originally Posted by Flashmo

Ok guys, riddle me this...


The question is on battery monitor meters:

Coming highly recommended from the Interwebs, I have read a lot of good reports on the Bogart Trimeric 2025 which operates off a shunt. It has a lot of good information on the state of the battery bank and watts in/out. The downside is it looks to be a little clunky in the display and has limited data logging.

For a few dollars less, I can install the Morningstar Tristar remote meter which is made to go with the controller. This meter has a pair of battery voltage sensing wires, will display the battery temp (from optional sensor) and has very detailed data logging with the ability to download it through MSView.

Any reason to favor the Bogart meter over the Morningstar?

[Tweaker]

Originally Posted by Flashmo

A DC analog meter, as shown in your photos, is pretty worthless for monitoring batteries. When 12.70v is a 100% charged battery and 12.20v is a 50% charge...those meters will show 12v with the batteries in either state. There are analog meters that could do the job, but they would be large, expensive, single function devices. It would be as successful as looking for 5th order harmonics in a building using a handheld analog meter.

Nonsense. It depends on the scale of your meter. You'd have to be blind not to see it, in fact mine has a green zone just in case you did forget your glasses. The meters I posted were only a quick google search. There is no reason anybody *needs* to spend $150+ to monitor the batteries of the modest systems described. Want is different.

Just curious, what exactly does one do with that information and a 600 watt system?

[GoNOW]

A good amp hour meter like Bogart is really a necessity. It measures real amp hours in and out of the batteries, with a shunt. It makes it easy to see how charged your batteries are. It's like seeing how full a bucket is by measuring the water going in and out of the bucket.
Most are also wife approved since they show a simple gas gauge or a percent number that is easy to understand.


Not sure you need history for an RV application. It's useful to make sure your batteries are getting fully charged at least once a week, but since you will be walking by it every day, then just take a peak when you check your water level.

A volt meter will tell you voltage, but voltage is a poor indicator of battery charge, and no indicator or battery charge when the batteries are charging or under a load. It's like trying to see how full the bucket of water is, with a hose pumping water in, or out of the bucket, as you slosh the water around in the bucket.

The Tristar meter is just a remote display panel. Good to see since the charge controller only comes with lights unless you replace the front panel. What your solar panels are putting out is not as critical, on a daily bases, as what is going into and out of your batteries.

Don't have a Bogart, but they have been around forever.

[Tweaker]

Originally Posted by GoNOW

A good amp hour meter like Bogart is really a necessity. It measures real amp hours in and out of the batteries, with a shunt. It makes it easy to see how charged your batteries are. It's like seeing how full a bucket is by measuring the water going in and out of the bucket.

A volt meter will tell you voltage, but voltage is a poor indicator of battery charge, and no indicator or battery charge when the batteries are charging or under a load. It's like trying to see how full the bucket of water is, with a hose pumping water in, or out of the bucket, as you slosh the water around in the bucket.

Huh? Voltage is very much a direct indicator of charge. I can look and know and know exactly where it should be. I know that in the morning, it may be down to 23.5 and that by late afternoon, it will read 27.5 or so bouncing off the charge controller and when the sun is gone, it will settle to just over 25 again. We are talking small systems here where anybody should have an idea if some huge load is really giving you a false sense.

The only reason one might need to know amps in/out is to check battery capacity. And then, there is nothing the user or that meter can do about less capacity. Nothing, except replacement. Any owner experienced enough to have an older pack can tell that just by watching that volt meter. We are not talking remote systems here, the user will be interfacing with the meter every day and will quickly learn the habits of his little needle. He knows what loads do what to his meter and he doesn't have many loads anyway.

There are a hell of a lot of systems running off a volt meter successfully, I have for over 20 years and my lead acids are lasting 7-8 years. But hey, if the guys doing the budget systems have the money for fancy meters, so be it, but it is not a necessity. At least they are cheaper now, before it was $300+.

[tommu56]

Originally Posted by Tweaker

Huh? Voltage is very much a direct indicator of charge. I can look and know and know exactly where it should be. I know that in the morning, it may be down to 23.5 and that by late afternoon, it will read 27.5 or so bouncing off the charge controller and when the sun is gone, it will settle to just over 25 again. We are talking small systems here where anybody should have an idea if some huge load is really giving you a false sense.

The only reason one might need to know amps in/out is to check battery capacity. And then, there is nothing the user or that meter can do about less capacity. Nothing, except replacement. Any owner experienced enough to have an older pack can tell that just by watching that volt meter. We are not talking remote systems here, the user will be interfacing with the meter every day and will quickly learn the habits of his little needle. He knows what loads do what to his meter and he doesn't have many loads anyway.

There are a hell of a lot of systems running off a volt meter successfully, I have for over 20 years and my lead acids are lasting 7-8 years. But hey, if the guys doing the budget systems have the money for fancy meters, so be it, but it is not a necessity. At least they are cheaper now, before it was $300+.

The Bogart meter has a % of battery capacity you enter the AH of the battery and it keeps track of the level of charge just looking at the voltage doesn't give you a good number.

I use it like a fuel gauge to see how far I can go on the battery's (should stay above 70% for better life) the speedometer (volt meter in this case) doesn't relate to state of charge.

tom

[GoNOW]

Sure. With a volt meter and an amp meter, or even a good guess at my current loads, I can get a good idea of battery state of charge. But it's not wife or buddy who is staying in the cabin friendly. Having a "gas gauge" is something almost anyone can figure out with no understanding of how electricity works.

Also, read this.
http://www.scubaengineer.com/documen...ing_graphs.pdf

If you understand it all, then go with just a volt meter.

[tommu56]

Originally Posted by tommu56

The Bogart meter has a % of battery capacity you enter the AH of the battery and it keeps track of the level of charge just looking at the voltage doesn't give you a good number.

I use it like a fuel gauge to see how far I can go on the battery's (should stay above 70% for better life) the speedometer (volt meter in this case) doesn't relate to state of charge.

tom

I goofed should have read

I use it like a fuel gauge to see how far I can go on the battery's (should stay above 70% for better life) the speedometer (AMP meter in this case) doesn't relate to state of charge.

[Skinner]

OK, Ihave a total of $1,100 invested.
A 60 watt solar power system (4 a 15 watt panels)
6 - 12 volt deep cycle batteries
This power inverter. Whistler Pro-2500W 2,500 Watt Power Inverter

I beleive this will all be way more than needed as for the most part i will run two 15 watt lightsand on occasion a tv and digital antena. In the moring an electric coffee maker. Used for two maybe three days in a row max. Then resting (charging) for two weeks mnimum, probably more like four, and. Have a 3500 watt generator if need to recharge the batteries diuring the afternoon if i have an excessive use period.

[tommu56]

Originally Posted by Skinner

OK, Ihave a total of $1,100 invested.
A 60 watt solar power system (4 a 15 watt panels)
6 - 12 volt deep cycle batteries
This power inverter. Whistler Pro-2500W 2,500 Watt Power Inverter

I beleive this will all be way more than needed as for the most part i will run two 15 watt lightsand on occasion a tv and digital antena. In the moring an electric coffee maker. Used for two maybe three days in a row max. Then resting (charging) for two weeks mnimum, probably more like four, and. Have a 3500 watt generator if need to recharge the batteries diuring the afternoon if i have an excessive use period.

Get a good stove percolator and save the battery tastes better than any drip thing.



tom

[Skinner]

I have a great percolator, but really that way more battery than i will use in a week

[ttpete]

A Melitta filter cone and filters will make coffee just as good and as quickly as a coffee maker and doesn't use electricity.

[hugemoth]

Solar power is only wasted if you don't use it. Nothing wrong with using an electric coffee maker if the system makes sufficient power.

[Skinner]

1) set timer on coffee maker

2) get out of bed when you smell the coffee.

[JAB]

Originally Posted by hugemoth

Solar power is only wasted if you don't use it. Nothing wrong with using an electric coffee maker if the system makes sufficient power.

+1.
I really think it's neat when I can make a pot of coffee and my wife can dry her hair all on solar juice. I hate to start up the gen in my RV, that seems like a waste.