...after it naps? Long story short - got a new '05 950s - started/ran perfectly right up until the first "parking lot" no-speed tip over. Then it did the classic crank over 50 times before starting thing (detailed thread here.) The obvious answer (& the general concensus) was that this was an evap/charcoal canister/emmissions-related issue. I've since had the bike completely de-smogged (under warranty! ) - afterwards no surging, etc... ran exactly like it did before (good). But the starting issue isn't affected at all. I, um... decided to "test" the repair by laying the bike on it's right side yesterday . It was starting relatively fine all day (no better/worse than usual), but after my failed 180 attempt in a dirt lot left it on it's side, I picked it up & it cranked for a LONGGGGG time before firing up (no throttle/choke, just starter). Cold start this morning went relatively ok ... but it took probably 50 cranks to get the thing going every subsequent attempt today. Last time this happened it took weeks before it would start decent again. Now that the evap stuff is gone, what would/could cause this? Weird, because ever since that very first "nap" the bike hasn't started as readily. Once it finally gets going, it idles/runs fantastic. I also smell gas when starting, though I don't know if this is from the carbs or the various vents since the de-smogging. They're the same carbs that came with the bike & it started great when I first got it - what could make this change ... ideas to "fix" it? I talked with another 950 owner today who said they never had weird hard-starting issues after dropping the bike ... which they said happened quite a few times :)
I had difficault staRTING AFTER TIPS tooo.let her rest a minute 1/4 twist on the throttle and sh'es hot to trot...
My tip over was yesterday - it rested all night. Running errands today - maybe 6-7 various stops, with the bike parked anywhere from 10 minutes to three hours ... same deal every stop - cranks 50 times & then barely sputters to life. Touching the throttle at all, even looking at it results in the evil CLANKCRACKOWBANG! starter noise. Same as last time ... after a tip over, my bike won't start decent for weeks.
Worth a try ... but should that resolve the problem, I'd be left with a larger issue. Because the bike starts perfectly until it's dropped, then won't start well for a few weeks ... every time the bike tips over on a trail ride you'd have to pull the vent lines & clean them...?
Inte, it sounds like you have only had a partial canister-ectomy done. The line to the canister are only part of the equation. The Mikuni air valve under the air box is connected to the float vent line. If this valve was left in place tiping over bike will cause gas to run out of floats, and get trapped in valve, blocking off air to floats and slides. Untill gas can clear the line bike will be a POS to ride.
That sounds like a possibility. I was told that valve is still there, but completely disconnected. I'm inclined to believe that's the case as the valve & all the piping was still in the left faring, but it wasn't hooked up to anything - I just unbolted it & took it all out. I'll check that out in the next day or so ... if that valve & the lines were plugged would the bike just have a hard time starting, or would it run like crap as well? Mine just wont start readily. Once it fires up, all is well.
...more like a new evaluation. Bike was in the garage all night. Went to fire it up this morning ... cranked forever, clacked, grinding, etc... same stuff. Finally came to life & ran beautifully as usual. I went to a meeting, parked & was inside for about 30 minutes. Afterward when I tried to fire the bike up ... same thing ... endless cranking, clanking, etc... SO... I get home, shut it down & fire it back up immediately afterward - starts 1st crank. I do this two or three times. Shut it down, & start it a couple seconds later - starts immediately - 1st crank. I left it off for about 3-4 minutes & then tried to start it ... back to "normal" endless cranking, clanking, etc... This has to point to something. As soon as the bike shuts off, it seems fuel is somehow continuing to pour into the carbs or ... something. After a minute ot two of being off, there's enough gas in the carbs that it won't start again until you've cranked the motor 50+ times to get all the gas out... What's weird is laying the bike down on it's right side somehow created this issue - & I don't have the canister or faring vaccuum valve. Just a guess . Flanny?
Inte, First off, I don't have a 950 ADV (or any KTM). However, you are describing a problem that also occurs on motocross bikes frequently - lay it down and it's hard starting afterwards (but not hard starting for weeks afterwards). The culprit with the mx bikes is flooding. While laying on its side the floats in the carbs aren't able to work properly resulting in a flooding condition. Until the excess fuel evaporates, the bike won't start. MX bikes don't have a starter so the rider kicks and kicks until his leg falls off. Eventually enough gas evaporates that the bike will start, but it's still really rich resulting in a poor running engine until finally enough fuel is burned off that everything is back to normal. Turning the throttle at all while attempting to re-start the engine maintains the flooding condition and prevents the engine from starting. The smell of gas during this process would be an indication of flooding. Which side of the bike is the fuel line exiting the gas tank on? On most mx bikes it is the left side of the bike. In those cases theoretically laying the bike down on its left side doesnt affect the fuel flowing down the fuel line into the carb. Laying the bike on its right side could prevent the fuel from flowing down the fuel line properly, especially if the fuel level in the tank was sufficiently low when the bike was layed on its right side. As for continuing to be hard starting when warm/hot for the next several weeks I'm not sure. If the problem is initially caused by flooding I would suspect then that laying the bike down caused a change in the carb somewhere that takes an extended time to work its way clear. Perhaps the float bowls are hanging up somehow, or a vent line is getting clogged with the excess fuel. Your most recent experience of it being hard to start after sitting for a few minutes would seem to suggest the float bowls aren't working properly and aren't shutting off the flow of fuel, resulting in a continuous flooding problem each time the bike sits for more than a minute or so. The fact that it always restarts if cranked long enough and you don't touch the throttle would be enough that I would check the floats first if I were experiencing this problem. Hope this helps.
It depends on what is connected to air valve under box. Is the y vent juction still connected to that air valve?
This is a bit if a wild assed guess, but I think it may have to do with fuel getting trapped your carb vent tubes. Last week I dropped my bike on the right side, and despite having no Canister crap on the bike, it still ran like shit ofter it's nap. The problem was that my carb vent formed a slight "u", and fuel was getting trapped in the dip. Since then, I've re-routed my vent line into a "T" Fitting, with one side going up to the filter, and the other side going down low to the front of the bike with the thank overflows. This allows fuel the escape, and the carbs to breath. Anyway, I'd disconnect your vent lines altogether at the carbs, and see if the problem goes away. If it does...consider re-routing your lines. Let me know if that's what it is...
I guess yes & no ... the carb vent tubes were sort of plugged by default - nothing in the tubes themselves, but the lower vaccuum valve (& possibly the SAS) was full of fuel. Based on the routing this might have restricted the carbs - only affected starting, not running of the bike - odd. Regardless, the it's all better thread is here!
In thinking about this ... how did you route the line from the 'T' up to the filter? I assume by this you mean you routed the line up into the "clean" area of the airbox above the filter .... if so, how? Did you cut a small hole in your filter, run the hose through, & seal that hole around the tube or something like that?
no,no,no...I meant the vent filter, not the air filter. It's just a hose that runs up in front of the air box, with a vent filter on it. Glad the bike is starting better now.
This problem happened to me, ran fine but hard to start, had to feed it throttle to get it started, the clue was the fuel pump had to pump (can hear it pump) after I stopped then turned on the ignition before I hit the starter. When I opened up the air box removed air filter and looked into the rear carb I could see and smell fuel pouring into the carb when I wasnt even touching the throttle. It was leaking by the needle. Had to use a wooden chop stick and polish the needle seat!! this fixed the problem.
