Dealing with dealers.....

I understand that. The scenario above the price that is to be determined is the TRADE. If you are selling a vehicle with a book value of X, your ability to sell or not sell the trade does NOT affect X one way or the other. Your ability to move the trade may affect what you will offer for the trade. But does NOT affect the price of the bike being sold... therefore, they should not be discussed together.

And as for the animosity, the sales pukes we see up here in the D.C. Metro area, some are great, MOST are not. We have a ton of shitty lots with scumbags selling cars. Buddy of mine used to be sales manager at a local dealer. He would defend my comments, as he is ethical and wants to move bikes, not rape everyone that walks through the door.

If I am not being clear on the OTD thing, and the sale price vs. trade price, I'm sorry.

YMMV,
Barry

We have some very good dealers and salesmen in this area.

I have yet to meet a sales puke at a motorcycle dealership.

This is what I mean by OTD price. I was looking for a new H-D V-Rod in 2011 and was going to trade in my 2008 KLR650. I wanted to pay no more than 12.5K. I owned the KLR, no loan. It took me walking out the first day, a Saturday, could not come down to my number. I started negotiations at 11K for the V-Rod knowing that I had to come up and they had to come down. The dealer calls me on Tuesday and said to come back and we could try and work the deal again. I go in on Wednesday and we start to deal again, after a bit of back and forth, we come to 12.5K OTD with the trade. I tell them that is all I'm willing to pay as tell them take it or I leave. I bought the new V-Rod and traded in my KLR. Here is how they broke down the numbers for the paper work.

Selling Price 15,999, Trade Allowance 5,263.08, Total Selling Price 10,735.92, Dealer Setup 1,085, Tax 322, DMV fees 58, Total Price of Motorcycle 12,201, Doc Fee 299, Total Purchase Price 12,500.

How I came to my price, MSRP list was 15.9, I subtracted 1.5K of MSRP, and take 2.4K off for my trade. I look up trade in value of the KLR, gave them a fair number for the bike.

How they came up with there numbers doesn't matter, I paid what I was willing to pay for the bike. Both parties are happy.

You made it very easy, either they could or could not.


There is no big secret to buying and selling, people have been doing it for thousands of years.
After 40 years in sales, I have seen and heard just about everything, but I still get a surprise and a chuckle quite often.

The last 2 new bikes I bought I did the deal over the phone and by email. I told the sales manager I would be paying by cashiers check, and was ready to put down a $1000 deposit over the phone with a credit card IF the price was right. Both times it went fairly easily. We agreed on an OTD price, and I showed up the next day with a cashiers check in the exact amount. Yes they tried to sell me an extended warranty and service contract, I simply tapped my finger on the check laying on the desk, and that stopped pretty quickly. If I ever buy another new bike, I'll do it the same way. If you have a trade in or need financing, you lose a lot of your bargaining power. Better to sell a bike rather than trade it in, and in my case, if I did need to get a loan, it would be better to get a cash loan from the credit union and buy with cash. Cash is hard for anyone, including a dealer, to turn down. They will usually take the deal even if there is only a little profit in it. They have to move inventory, it costs them to keep it. I just took money out of my savings account, then put it back, so it was like an interest free loan. And it kept me from having to put full coverage on the bikes, so I saved all the way around.

THIS ^^^^^ is the beauty of dealing with one number... OTD.

He maybe said it better than I did.

Could you tell a difference between the way markk9 arrived at his numbers and the way you try to arrive at yours?

I bought the last bike the same way. My regular dealer had no access to the model, so I called around and Razee of RI made me a deal on the phone and took the deposit with my bank card. I emailed the list of extra's I wanted added and they emailed me back a detailed invoice. 7 weeks later the bike came in and I picked it up. They took a personal check for the balance, although I asked first since it is a 90 minute drive.

What a great dealership! They were packed with locals every time I visited; coffee, donuts and bench racing... Everybody I met from sales to service has been extremely helpful and prompt. I suspect they have very low turnover. I wish they were'nt so far away.

BTW, three other dealers I called finally got back to me a few weeks later. They must have sold out of their first allocations (which Razee had too). I got a chuckle out of their reaction when I told them I already had a bike coming. I realize dealers don't want to be shopped over the phone, but Razee was willing and they got the order.

This worked for me a few times. I put the price I wanted to pay on the back of one of my business cards, and always got a call-back. Might have taken a week, but always worked on any Japanese bike I wanted.

That is what I am trying to explain. It makes no difference what the numbers are.
Retail numbers are always posted on NEW, but you don't need any asking price on a used to used trade.


Remember only YOU know how much You will pay.

This. I haven't bought anything but used bikes for years. But when I was buying new dual sports I would walk into the dealer with $100 bills and tell them how many of those bills I was willing to part with. They didn't always take the first offer. But they never let me back out the door without a bike either.

The reason why was that I knew what I was willing to pay and carried that much in cash through the door. It is kind of fun to watch them sweat when you are showing them a nice stack of bills. But, more importantly, it is amazing how fast the bullshit turns to a straightforward negotiation when you are holding a fistful of cash.

Money talks.

It is not the dealers job to make you happy, (some folks are just a sour puss) it is your job to make yourself happy, by paying what you want.

Do you call them this to their faces?

You can make your point in this thread without calling others pukes and scumbags. How would you like to be called a CEO small IT Corporation puke?

If your offer was reasonable and you were someone worthy of helping (not an arrogant demanding buffoon) you would get a yes. If your offer is NOT reasonable you would get a "NO" and shown a bike that you could buy for that much. If you replied like an arrogant buffoon you would be escorted out the door.

A fistful of cash matters LESS than a smile and a jovial personality. Be someone they want to help and you will stand a better chance of getting what you want. The stack of hundreds only shows you are able. Show them you are worthy... Tell them you are able and leave the cash in your pocket.

Not yet.... I have been very lucky with who i have dealt with face to face. I get some horror stories from friends and acquaintences.

Not really. He may have been more eloquent.

As for the ethical, professional sales folks here, if my comments do not apply to you then unwad ur panties.

For the record i try to be a more than reasonable and polite customer as i appreciate the efforts of those that assist me in my endeavors. You are free to assume that is not the case.

Good riding buddy sold me my KTM 560 SMR. He is a great sales person and extremely smart and ethical. So the brush ain't as broad as some of you might wish.

Barry

Yep. Dakez is right on the money here.
Use your company manners. Don't get personal. Smile. And have fun.

Also remember that sales people in bike dealerships meet a fair number of dicks who think they're Richard Branson. If you're nice to the salesperson and get them to like you, you're gonna have a better experience. Charm goes a lot farther than acting like you're in a gunfight with Tuko over a grave full of gold.

As long as we're talking about how to work the system, if you're dealing with a shop that's big enough to have a commissioned salesperson, there's a way to short circuit the machine.
Show the sales guy 3-500 bucks. Tell him it's his if he can get a you a screaming deal on the bike.
Get the screaming deal. Give him the cash.
You just cut the owner out of the loop.

How do you think I arrive at my numbers???