The All New LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

leaving aside current higher center of gravity

I concur.

sorry I misunderstood.

+1

When I was in the business selling oilheads, the riders who broke them in hard and fast never seemed to have issues with oil consumption. The guys who babied the bikes during break-in, obsessed about oil level, and constantly topped them off had bikes that continued to burn oil. I think it was more an issue of their bikes being slightly overfilled, but you'd never convince the owners of this, who never seemed to be happy unless their oil levels were at the very top of the sight glass circle. My opinion has always been that if you've got oil within the circle, you've got plenty of oil.

That sounds like me

What your saying has some element of truth, but since a judgment of how a bike "carries its weight" is so subjective, I'm not sure it transfers from rider to rider.

You say the DL650 felt heavier than a GS, but I rode both for a period and felt the exact opposite - the Wee felt a LOT lighter, more than the 50-lbs difference in absolute weight. Likewise, S10 proponents say that it carries its weight better than a GS and has a lower CG, but looking at the two bikes, I'd bet the CG of the S10 is higher and to me, the S10 feels every bit of 40-odd lbs heavier than a GS to me. Having ridden all three extensively, I'd peg them as "feeling" about as the numbers stack up: 475 (Wee) - 530 (GS) - 575 (S10).

Mostly, I see this argument that a bike "carries its weight better" is used as way to deflect criticism of a bike's absolute weight.

In the end, weight is weight and I think bikes of similar design carry it more or less similarly.

- Mark

Hmmm. Not so certain about that. There is certainly an element of personal impression involved, but the rest is generally measurable, it's just never measured.

.
Yes, it would be useful to have some sort of *objective* measurement of how "heavy" the bike is to wrestle with when it's at standstill or at walking pace.
Showroom impressions of "easiness to manhandle" are too subjective ~ varying form day to day or from showroom to showroom, when comparing different types of bike.

Height of CoG [if that term doesn't cause meltdown here !!!] would be a starting point, of sorts . . . but how believable would it be, in view of the difficulty of independent verification . . . and the trouble we've had getting realistically honest dry/wet weights to be quoted by manufacturers.

A more intuitive & comparable figure would be some sort of force [pounds or kilogram-weight] that the rider's foot needs to exert in order to support the bike when it is leaned over [at standstill, of course] to an angle of [say] 30 degrees from vertical.
This would need to be in standardised conditions, with foot at such and such distance [from the original midline of bike ~ 24"/60cm ?], with vertical force measured, . . . and so on.
That would give an idea of the relative "wrestle-ability" needed to correct a bike that's gotten to an uncomfortable angle stopped ~ or is being ridden very slowly on rough ground.

Still not so easy for the average citizen to verify . . . but if needs must, it could be done in a rough'n'ready way by using bathroom scales and a certain amount of ingenuity . . . and two strong assistants.
"Trust but verify!"
.

That's pretty much what could be done. But nobodies going to do it. There's no way the manufacturers and the press is going to muddy the speculation and bullshitting with hard, verifiable facts ...

what a interresting subject

But there are so many of pics like that on internet that I'm quite sure this will be the real test to be done : the amount of muscle needed to continue the journey...
At that moment plus or minus 6.5kg is meaningfull
(at least if alone)

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316138&highlight=hp2

I had a chance to ride a GSA, a 12GS and my S10 back to back last weekend. Even though the GSA's wet weight's the same as the S10's, the Yamaha feels much lighter lifting it off the side stand and maneuvering at very slow speeds/doing u-turns. The 12GS felt about the same as the S10, even though it's quite a bit lighter. I've owned the S10 for about a month and am still impressed how Yamaha managed to make it feel so light, well balanced and nimble. It's a real pleasure to ride even through heavy city traffic and wheeling it around is a cinch.

So I'm not the only idiot who can drop the bike in maybe 2" of sand.



Every time I tried to lift it the front end walked away from me.

That is an interesting tire configuration!

Interesting maybe but not unusual. I also use that combination - it is a very practical all-round touring option

viz

the measure that we seem to be talking about in lifting and maneuvering the bike around is center of gravity and center of mass(dynamic effects)

the boxer twin has traditionally allowed these to be lower...just like Porsche etc

jacking the bike up for high ground clearance kills these benefits.

what puzzels me in the new GS ia that BMW has again put the gas tank yet again at the highest(worst) point possible.
They allso make the tail end of the bike unnecessary high...far more than the rear suspension travel demands, and this put both the side bags and top bags higher that necessary.

all of these things raise the C of G, make the bike harder to pick up, and make slow speed dynamic handling more difficult.

The F800 series atleast puts the gas lower under the seat.

The fuel is lower in the new bike as it's the airbox that is up high. The fuel is now on top of the gearbox.

The blue is growlng on me but I still prefer the white one.

^ anything but more cog/relative weight talk

some prices here in € / Belgium (21% tax)

http://jemelapetenflat.xooit.be/t2744-Refroidissement-a-eau.htm?start=180