My 1st Motorcycle Exit. Help me figure out what the hell happened?!?!

The tires have a date-code on the sidewall if you're curious. Usually is day/year all run together in an indented marking. Unless they were really old I doubt it was anything to do with your tires. I've run 880's on a variety of bikes, most recently a RoadStar (1600) and before that a '94 Magne 750. Never had any complaints about the traction of them. If you found yourself easily locking up the rear on your drum-brake Nighthawk maybe something was misadjusted/misassembled in the rear brake?

You could have hit something as small as an acorn, and never found it again after the accident.

880s don't have a ton of traction like more sport-oriented tires, but unless the tires on your bike are super-old and rock hard, I doubt the tire itself was the problem. Heck, when I bought my old GL1000 it had an 880 on the rear that was probably 15+ years old and hard as a rock but it was still OK to ride on until the replacements were delivered.

Even the crappiest motorcycle tire available should have enough grip for any kind of halfway sane 10-12 MPH turn on clean pavement unless maybe you were really going crazy and trying to make the turn at full lock or something. My money would be on some kind of traction-reducing road contaminant that you didn't or couldn't spot, or riding over a different surface like a manhole cover, as suggested above.

Ha ha ha ha! Oh, no -- NEVER!

its probably that spot then.

with my 750 I cannot even pull out from a turn in first without the ass end coming unglued...from a stop i literally have shift to second during the turn and then i can give it gas pulling out. No other bikes do i have to do that, but my 750 is a v4 and they are torquey mothers.

Regarding the NH being top heavy, is there any technique I (1 year rider) should be aware of? Unless I'm having to man handle it at foot speed, I actually find its handling predictable and "friendly" compared to my Vulcan 500, except when managing "quick" left/rights. Or the fact that at highway speeds, it *really* wants to go straight. I can bring it to a complete stop before bringing my feet down and feel more comfortable at "creeping" speeds. No tendency to "fall into" parking lot speed turns like the cruiser Vulcan. The riding position feels like it gives me more control and I like being able to flat foot with straight legs, but the heavy feeling at speed is a new challenge. Steering input on high speed ramps feels really heavy, but much more planted.

Any words of wisdom?

Thanks

I have been riding for a long time, but I am still learning.:huh I have found out the hard way about manhole covers. I avoid them. Also, I avoid the painted center lines unless I am purposefully crossing them.

On my 1150GS, I am only in 1st gear for the purpose of starting the bike foward from a complete stop. At 10 MPH going through a curve such as yours I would definitely be in 2rd gear and have my hand on the clutch. First gear is way too torquey. Once again, I am thinking of multiple variables combining for a "perfect storm."

Did you check your tire pressures?

With respect to traction, can the pressure be too high? I don't recall filling that high, but the rear is at 40 psi, cold.

And yeah, my accident is almost certainly attributable to my inexperience / newness to a heavier, more powerful machine. I'm owning up to that. I've had a year to get comfortable with my Vulcan but maybe 50 hours on the 'hawk. Because of the power and smoothness, I've found myself going too fast on it. Even for a pig heavy bike, it's deceptive. I wish I had a better mental picture of the accident's "play by play" to learn from.

There are plenty of variables at play here, all under my control:

A) My slide began at the yellow line and a dark patch - I know paint can be slick and I should be more vigilant about pavement condition. Plus, cold tires just have less grip.
B) The tire pressure is surprisingly high. Tire condition should never be a surprise.
C) The sides of the rear tire outside the very conservative wear zone (large chicken strips) are almost virgin except for some weird scuffing, likely from the traction failing or the bike skittering across the pavement on its side. I probably did get into that zone while simultaneously screwing up the weight transfer. I was nowhere near touching a peg or pipe to the ground.
D) Which means I was probably pushing the machine too hard or got complacent. I'm in that danger zone where I feel like I have experience, but am still quite the newbie.

It's a hard way to learn a lesson, but at least it happened at low speed on my "beater" bike.

Somehow you exceeded the limits of traction, and the tire gave out. Could be caused by a few things:
1: Dust, dirt, diesel fuel on the surface
2: Manhole covers, and white lines can be very slick, if I were a betting man, I'd say you probably rode over the cover and it was wet. Plus you mentioned you were in first gear - a slight chop in the throttle could have caused just enough engine braking while leaned over that you exceed the traction limit in that moment, especially while riding over a cold wet manhole cover (if you rode over it) Result is a low side.

Honestly, it sounds more like a throttle control issue than anything else.

Glad you are OK. Live and learn!

All I see here is a humble, inquisitive person who is not afraid to admit he isn't Marc Marquez and is willing to learn from mistakes. It is refreshing and I predict a long happy life of riding for this gentleman. Well done.

Thanks.


In rummaging through the pile of dirty clothes this morning (bachelor style), I came across the jeans I was wearing that day. I hadn't noticed it before, but there's an oil stain on the rear that could only have come from when my butt was on the pavement. Maybe not a smoking gun, but a pretty big clue.

EDIT> I rode in today on my Vulcan right past where the Nighthawk went down. There's a healthy patch of scum right where I lost it. I picked a bad line and paid for it.

Its good to see you're considering all of the variables. All accidents happen when multiple mistakes are made and not just one.

One thing no one else mentioned was adding throttle and lean angle at the same time. I'm not sure if you were doing this but adding the two together is the single most common way people lose rear traction in a corner. Its best to simply maintain throttle while turning in and only start adding throttle after your chosen lean angle is reached. That alone isn't enough at low speeds and mild lean angles to fall. So road conditions probably had a factor in it.

That being said, its pretty rare to lose the rear end without brakes or throttle being involved. Normally its the front thats trying to deal with steering and cornering loads at the same time while the rear just follows.

Your tire pressure was fine. Tire compound and construction has a much bigger effect unless your PSI is way outside the recommended range. If you were fully on an unscuffed part of the tire in 60 degree temperature that probably had a huge impact on the traction you had. I normally ride the twisty roads pretty aggressively and I've slid on new tires more times than I would have liked to. If its 85+ degrees outside new unscuffed tires seem to grip just fine from my experience. That will vary with different tires though.

Check your tire dates. Pirelli had a recall on the 880s back in 2008 or 2009. Poor traction, delamination, and chunking was an issue cited on them.

Also realize that different bikes have different feels to them. Cruisers are low and heavy pigs to me. Dual sports are tall. And everything else is in between. Tires also come in different shapes like conical and round that give your bike different turning attributes too. The same for outer edge handling. Conical tires tend to want to "fall over" faster vs round ones.

Saw a reference in your first post that the "gear held up well." I don't consider jeans, even Kevlar jeans, to be proper riding gear. They lack any armor and nothing you want to wearing sliding on the pavement.

Can't really add to the discussion on the crash reasons but do encourage you to buy a proper riding pant and other gear. New riders always cheap out on gear and don't appreciate the value until its usually too late.

Figure out the most you can reasonably afford, then double it. EBay, outlets, local dealer sales, or this forums classifieds can help lower your cost.

Didn't see anyone chime in here...
High Speed - Read up on and practice countersteering.
Low Speed - Let the bike lean under you, you'll feel more in control.
Unsure of traction - Let the bike lean under you. A quick countersteer can then be used to get the bike upright again if you do lose traction.

also you can run the forks up in the trees so they stick out an inch, if you have the suspension travel and they avoid any interference during turning. This will quicken your turns a little.

In the 90s I had a pair of jeans with a yellow stripe down the left leg.
From where I crossed a solid yellow line (failed to maintain lane discipline).
On a tight cloverleaf.
Going pretty fast.
In the rain.

Talk about a self-created accident. I really screwed the pooch on that one. It cost me a few busted ribs but I learned a LOT from that one.

I've low sided on liquid squeezings from a garbage truck.

Diesel fuel is also super sluck, especially combined with morning dew or garbage squeezings.

I kinda scanned the thread. I don't think you did anything wrong. I'm not real familiar with cruiser tires but I don't see how you could have pushed it to any limits in anyway.

If you hit a patch of oil or something it's like ice. Sometimes if the patch is small enough the bike can regain traction. Anyway, I would go investigate that patch. Maybe bring some water with you and spray it then wipe it and see what comes up.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm slowly putting the Nighthawk back together. In the meantime, I've gotten back on the horse on my Vulcan 500. I'm mostly back in the comfort zone, but do have moments here and there. Just have to keep riding.