Hello, Will someone rate Olympia and Tourmaster Transition jackets for the purpose of best for waterproof or anything else you can think of. Thanks, Heirhead
I have a Tourmaster Transition 2 as well as an Olympia X moto. Not sure you've looked at the X moto, but take this for what it's worth.. I like them both... The Tourmaster is much more affordable, but the color faded in just a couple of years (black). It's a nice jacket.. well thought out and has some nice features. Venting is OK. not great.. It's definitely NOT a hot weather jacket.. I've ridden in light rain before and it seemed to be pretty water resistant and I didn't get any water inside of the jacket.. Not sure how it would work out in a downpour. Transition: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=665745 The Oly X moto is quite a bit more expensive.. Fit and finish is higher than the Transition and it fits me a little better too.. The liners are OK, but when the waterproof liner is in, the jacket doesn't seem to breathe very well.. I felt like I was in one of those weight loss suits that make you sweat like a pig.... Not fun. I have wind & waterproof jacket that I can wear underneath the Xmoto jacket instead of the liner(s) that is a much better solution (for me). Venting is AWESOME on the Xmoto, though and that's the main reason I bought it. I haven't used the built in hydration system yet, so can't comment on that.. Xmoto: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=541176 Hope that helps..
It is a factor of quality vs price. Personally I think Olympia, despite the higher price offers better value. 1) Olympia is generally twice the price of Tourmaster. 2) Olympia use 500D and 2000D (on strike points) Cordura which offers 1st ratre abrasion resistance . 2000D has similar abrasion resistance to 1.3mm leather Tourmaster uses non abrasion resistant polyester. 3) Olympia vented jackets vent much better and are cooler in hot weather. 4) Olympia use 3M Thinsulate insulation with aluniminized heat reflective lining while tourmaster uses more basic polyester fill and non reflective lining. 5) Armor quality and fit is better in the Olympia 6) Fit is better and more accurate in the Olympia
I keep reading this as common knowledge on here, yet the companies using polyester Carbolex in their jackets claim it is superior to Cordura. What is the source that says Carbolex is worse than Cordura in abrasion resistance? This is from Tourmaster: This is from Fieldsheer:
Both are subjective, but I must disagree with both points, in particular between the AST 2 and the Transition 3. The Tourmaster jacket fit better and was more comfy.
Carbolux and Cordura are basically the same thing, just a difference in branding. Dupont invented Cordura and sold it to Invista. Carbolux is a clone of Cordura owned by a Chinses manufacturer. Both can be made of either cheaper polyester or more expensive nylon base material. Where the difference is, is that a lot of Tourmaster gear uses polyester based Carbolux which does not have near the same abrasion resistance as nylon based Carbolux of the same weight. On top of this Tourmaster uses lighter weight (denier) fabrics which further decreases it's abrasion resistance. Unless they specify which type and weight of Carbolux and Cordura were compared the above chart means nothing.
Source for that? Both Fieldsheer and Tourmaster say that Carbolex is polyester on their web sites and say that it is superior in abrasion resistance to Cordura. According to the Cordura website it is made from nylon. According to the Fieldsheer website Carboflex (not Carbolex--note the spelling) is another material they use, which is an aramid material (more like Kevlar). However, look closely at that chart I published above--both Carbolex and Carboflex are superior in abrasion resistance to Cordura, according to Fieldsheer.
I've never worn a Tourmaster Transition Jacket but I do own a Tourmaster 3/4 jacket. (10 years old) It's been a really good jacket and I even crashed in it once. There is no damage other than a very slight scuff. No seams broke and there are no holes...the only problem with it is the waterproofing went completely away after the first year and no amount of reproofer will bring it back be it spray on, wash in, air dryed, or dryer set...it leaks like a sieve. I also owned an Olympia AST Jacket and I had it for one week...really liked the jacket. Well made and the vents worked superbly. The day I got it in the mail, I took it out for a trial run because it was raining. Made sure all vents were closed and all storm flaps and velcro was secured properly. 10-15 minutes out the jacket leaked through badly enough to get my entire chest wet. It didn't go down the neck, and the vents did not leak. So, the jacket went back, and a refund was provided along with an appology. Customer service was really good BTW. Bought an Aerostitch Darien and have been dry ever since...
I don't think you can make a universal statement as to one being better than the other. While I would hazard that Olympia may be better as a whole, I think you would need to compare particular garments. I think both companies are pretty good for the price (I've owned two Olympia jackets and one Tourmaster), but each company's lineup has good items and bad. Particularly when you're talking about waterproofness. Find a jacket you like and check out the reviews. The brand name on the label won't change how good or bad it is.
I have been wearing a AST2 since February. Been in a few down pours here in the pacific northwest. Leaking has not been an issue, quite warm with the liner and the venting works well on hot days. Fit is very good for my frame, 5'11" 200lb. It feels rather bulky when putting it on but once it is on and adjusted that bulky feeling goes away. The tall neck is nice except the it rubs right at the helmet loops. A bit of fiddling and I can adjust it to be comfortable. Sorry, but I have no experience with tourmaster.
I have the Oylmpia 4 seasons that I just used on my trip from Texas to the Arctic circle. Needless to say I used all four seasons. I love the venting front and back plus the ability to use the cold weather liner as a jacket on its own. May cost a bit more but for me it was the right choice. Timbercat Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
"Non-abrasion resistant"? That betrays a certain bias. Of course the materials in Tourmaster jackets are abrasion-resistant. Whether they are more or less abrasion resistant that those in Olympia jackets is open to debate. As for fit being "better" and "more accurate" in the Olympia--I suppose that might be true if you're under six feet and have a 40" inch chest. I'm in no position to comment. The Olympia jacket I bought--and had to send back--was both too tight and too short in the body. Sleeve length, surprisingly (I wear a 38" sleeve) was fine. Both my Tourmasters, on the other hand, are both long enough and wide enough. Olympia jackets are cut fairly tight (for their size) and fairly short in the body. Same for their one-pieces. When it comes to jackets, their claim that they fit tall people is bilge water. Curiously, their pants are plenty long and run very true to size. If you wear size 44 pants, you can expect that a pair of size 44 Olympias will fit nicely over your pants.
If you look at the Cordura site Invista makes a dozen different variations of Cordura (not just different fabric weights) for different applications made with different weaves and base materiels but only recommends what they call Ballistic Cordura made from Nylon for motorcycle gear. There are a dozen different variations on Carblex as well made from both Nylon and Polyester. There is also no standardized test for testing abrasion resistance so without an independent source testing all materials, as they are used in the real world (abrasion against pavement like abrasion and not fine sandpaper and with real world pressure applied) and the actual materials used in gear, and not for instance cherry picking the least abrasion resistant cordura or carbolex fabrics to test against, it is impossible to say much. Nylon is more expensive than polyester though and has more abrasion resistance as a base material so I would expect nylon based Carbolex or Cordura to be superior to polyester based Cordura or Carbolex. The following chart is from Motoport.com Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers <table style="border-collapse: collapse; height: 284px; width: 570px;" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"><tbody><tr> <td style="background-color: #c0c0c0; width: 190px; height: 40px;" align="center"> Product / Material </td> <td style="background-color: #c0c0c0; width: 190px; height: 40px;" align="center"> Pounds of force until fabric tears </td> <td style="background-color: #c0c0c0; width: 190px; height: 40px;" align="center"> Abrasion cycles until fabric fails </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 28px;" align="center">CottonJeans </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 28px;" align="center">4.5 pounds to tear </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 28px;" align="center">50 cycles to failure </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">70 Denier Standard Nylon </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">4.5 pounds to tear </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">165 cycles to failure </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">500 Denier Polyester </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">8 pounds to tear </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">180 cycles to failure </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">200 Denier Standard Nylon </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">7.5 pounds to tear </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">275 cycles to failure </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">500 Denier Cordura </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">22 pounds to tear</td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">710 cycles to failure </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">620 Denier Cordura </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">35 pounds to tear </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">1200 cycles to failure</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">NEW Competition Grade Leather </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">80-110 pounds to tear</td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">1200-1700 cycles to failure </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">1000 Denier Cordura </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">110 pounds to tear </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">1780 cycles to failure </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">Air Mesh Kevlar </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">1260 pounds to tear </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">1800 cycles to failure </td> </tr> <tr> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">Stretch Kevlar Blend </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">420lbs pounds to tear </td> <td style="width: 190px; height: 25px;" align="center">1800 cycles to failure </td></tr></tbody></table> Olympia abrasion testing: http://olympiamotosports.com/features/ A Ride magazine test which compared 20 different textile jackets and pants and had a lab test them for abrasion resistance, determined an AeroStitch jacket made of 500D Cordura was most abrasion resistant which would tend to support the Motoport findings on Cordura. Cordura is used by just about every manufacturer of higher end textile gear for example Aerostitch, AlpineStars (their higher end stuff), Olympia, Tiez, Vanson, Rev'It (some higher end stuff), Klim, etc..
I have a transition 2 jacket. I would not consider the Olympia because if it rains you need to stop, remove the jacket and put in the waterproof liner. This just does not make sense to me. Might as well buy an non waterproof jacket and carry a rain jacket. As for abrasion resistance, I have personally tested the abrasion resistance of my transition jacket. It took some damage but did it's job in a 40MPH low side. I repaired it but am considering getting a new jacket this fall. I'm looking at either the Transition 3 or the Sliders Quest 3 kevlar jacket. I think the ventilation of the tourmaster is pretty good but the sliders looks like it may be even better. I recently wore my Transition on a ride with temps in the high 80's. It was pretty comfortable as long as I was moving. With a cooling vest it would probably be OK into the 90s. Anyone out there have the new Sliders Quest 3 jacket?
A good fit is really important and you can't beat actually trying on a suit. A slightly weaker fabric would hold up better if you were sliding on say an elbow guard vs an elbow bone. I burned thru a motoport airmesh elbow probably because the armor wasn't in place. (And the armor wasn't in place because it didn't fit right. It doesn't fit right because I hurt Waynes feelings when I said it fits no where near the shirt I sent him. I said that because it doesn't... and I didn't know THEN how sensitive he is! So back to try whatever on in person!) On jackets I really like having straps that hold down the elbow pads in place - If your sliding on it there's a lot of force trying to pull them off.
I had a 100' asphault slide wearing a Teknic 1000D Cordura jacket and Fieldshere mercury pants Carbolex. the pants held up just as well as the jacket. I did have to replace both.
OK, I looked at the Invista site on Cordura and it does indicate that Cordura ballistic stuff is made from nylon. Can you show me where there is a similar site for Carbolex that indicates there is a nylon version as well as a polyester version? In any case, I don't think it really matters as I have never seen claims on any Carbolex motorcycle gear that it was anything other than polyester. Any manufacturer's site is somewhat suspect in that they cherry pick and choose the data they want to show in order to make their fabrics and construction appear to be superior, so I can't say that either the Fieldsheer or the Motoport charts really mean much. For example, the Motoport chart doesn't even mention Carbolex or Carboflex, whatever it is made out of. And then there are testimonies like this:
Your statement does apply to their mesh line of jackets but not the AST2. The AST2 has a waterproof/breathable membrane as part of the outer shell. The liner is for colder temps, and as a bonus can be warn on its own as a light jacket. http://olympiamotosports.com/catalog/vent-tech/mens-ast-2-touring-jacket/
Hello, Sorry took so long to respond as out of town. WOW!!! What great info from all. Bought a Tourmaster for myself and an Airshell for my friends 60th b-day. He usually rides in shorts and sweatshirt so he didn't want jacket. Selling it. Can't believe all of the great advice with charts and all. Thank you very much to all who responded. Much appreciated. Heirhead