sleeping bags/hip holes

I've been checking out all of the sleeping bag threads and thermarest threads in anticipation of some Christmas purchases for myself. After making my decisions I was talking to a friendly old-timer at lunch today, he told me the most imprtant thing about camping is to dig "hip-holes" under your butt before lying down. :huh WTF!?!? I say to old-timer. Well, after 45 minutes of old-timer stories the jist of what he was saying was that a thermarest doesn't provide enough "give" and your butt takes most of your weight, causing your back to be ever so sore.
I know nothing about camping, (all my m/c trips have involved hotel camping) so I put it to the experts of ADV, is this hip-hole necessary, does your back hurt in the morning, has old-timer flipped??

I guess it depends on how thick your matress is and how many cocktails you before you go to bed ..

Actually, I've never dug any hip-holes in all my years of camping and this is the first I've ever heard of it. I'm usually all over the place when I sleep so that would have to be one hellofa big hole.

Hip holes may be of some help if you sleep on your side a lot. I learned about them back in my Boy Scout Days (early 1960s, which was way before Thermarest, I'm sure).

I'm in my mid 50s, have a bulging disc with hypertrophy of the adjacent vertebrae, like to sleep on my sides some. I have never needed to bother with hip holes. I get a good nights sleep on my air mattress and on my Thermarest, too. Sometimes better on the Thermarest.

But, if you feel any pressure points on your hips, or your back isn't "happy", you should experiment with hip holes and see if they work for you. It only takes a depression about 2-3 inches deep to make a difference in how your body flattens out - trial and error will tell you how much or whether its worth the effort.

Never thought about that way but it sure wish I had. I feel kind of stupid for not thinking of it. A lot of campers spend a fortune trying to find the perfect sleep solution. The "old timer" is right. Even the deluxe Thermorest is only 2 1/2" thick. Give it a try in your back yard. You sure don't have anything to lose. I'm sure going to gve it a try.

My tent usually goes on lumpy enough ground that I fit around the existing contours. Before I set up a tent I usually lay on the ground (or on the ground-cloth) to select a spot that fits. I then set up the tent over my selected bed. I'll move sticks and stones, but won't dig at all (unless the camp has no outhouse; another practice that is falling from favor).

Hip holes were recommended back when tents were canvas and had no floors. Other advice for them was to "trench" around the tent to drain rain-water away and to never touch the inside of the tent since that starts a leak. In the '60s I obeyed these. We had a piece of plastic for a ground cloth and in winter we'd take newspaper for insulation. (Standard advice of the time was to cut pine boughs for a bed, but even back then we saw that this was destructive.) Trenching is now considered vandalism as are a lot of the practices we used before the backpacking boom of the '70s.

Hip holes in some ground may be easy to patch when you're leaving, but I'd still hesitate.

In the '70s I started using a 3/8" foam pad (3/4 length). I still use one of those in warmer weather and 1/2" full length in cool.

GOOD LUCK with your camping. I enjoy it tremendously and hope that you do too. I sure hope this post doesn't sound too stern, but your old-timer's advice is from another time.

Dave

Be tougher .

I usually camp with two person tent, sleeping bag, and if there's room a foam pad cut to half length - if it's a long trip or I'm packing a lot the pad is the thing that stays behind.
I can sleep without the pad, but I'll admit to being a little sore in the morning if I do that, the pad helps, but only needs to be "hips to shoulders" long, cut down like that they fold quite small.

Being really tired by the time you camp helps, as does making sure you are going to stay warm all night. The rest is probably base fitness level and flexibility - do a lot of stretching exercises or a take yoga course before you go camping. Being able to sleep on your back or front also helps as does being able to sleep without a lot of tossing and turning, but again that's more fitness and flexibility than the surface under you.

I know it isn't due to the transition from the bed you have at home - I have a water bed and don't suffer badly camping.

If you are worried about how you'll cope, throw the sleeping bag down on the floor at home for a night - if that's hell and you can't cope with it - stay in motels instead. If this wasn't a bike forum I wouldn't bother suggesting that, but riding dog tired is just asking for trouble.

Good luck
Pete

And just where on the bike are you proposing to store the shovel needed to dig the hip holes?
You have been strung a line of B/S by somebody who had you pegged as a newbie just ignore it and get on with enjoying your motorcycle travels.

Hmm. Never heard of digging "hip holes." I can remember when we trenched our tents, but that is a big "NO No" know because it contributes to erosion. I would think digging hip holes would do the same and be discouraged.


Lee

Stop talk'n to crazy old people

Air bed there not that bulkey and if you have a 12v compressor you dont really need a pump (allthough i take a dedicated 12vpump + bed it still uses less space than a roll mat.. which i take as well anyhow )

Interesting idea though, worth knowing "just in case"

look, if you don't know what you're talking, just don't denigrate someone who offers good advice. this is a very comfortable practice. I use an inflatable air mattress so this doesnt become necessary but when I did sleep on the ground, it made a LOT of difference how I felt when waking up....

I like to set up my tent and sleeping bag then get to work. About two or three good hits of Jack and I sleep like a baby all night long. After one drink I don't need hip holes after the the 3rd one hell I don't really need a tent

I've heard of people digging hip holes when sleeping on the ground...it's supposed to really help, and it sure seems like it would.

Me, I prefer to hang a hammock...ahhhh...decadent!

9 times of 10 Im in a hammock anyway.....

Setting up camp will take a lot longer if you have to DIG your bed. I've known of this suggestion, too, since my Boy Scout days but I'm not sure you'll find many campgrounds where they'll allow hip hole digging.

As a side sleeper, I know I toss and turn a lot--even at home-- due to side sleeping and the pressure put on the hips and shoulders. Sooner or later blood flow is reduced and an ache starts, causing you to wanna turn, whether you're fully awake or not. This kind of restless sleep ain't the best.

Best bet is to get the thickest air mattress you can fit on your bike. I use the Big Agnes system so the Air Core mattress STAYS with the sleeping bag. It ain't no good no matter how thick if it slides out from under you during the night and ends up on the other side of the tent.

I know a guy who takes a twin sized air bed mattress that just about fills up the entire floor of his tent. Thats a pretty good idea if'n you have the room for the air bed in your bags/panniers (and you have a pump).

My $.02

Ok...I spent 2 years in the Marine Corps infantry. While conducing field operations, never did i dig a hole in the dirt to keep warm. We used 3 part sleeping systems which could be configued relative to the climate and temperature we were sleeping at. We used only those shitty foam "iso-mats". That was when I was 18-20yrs old. Now, as I get older, I still use the same sleeping system, but got myself a thermarest pad. Im happy with that. Id like to combine an old isomat with the thermarest....might be a good and inexpensive combo.

just my $.02

Heard of it in Scouts (in fact I think its even in the scout manual), but due to careful site selection I've never had to do it. Often I'd gather up extra leaves and pine needles from the ground around the area to make an extra thick layer to set the tent up on, then rescatter when packing up.

These days I use a Hennessy tent-hammock when by myself and a lightweight fabric air matress in the "big" tent when the wife is with.

Thanks for the insight. Seems that the general consensus is that it is an out-dated technique.
I am new to the camping thing but am exited about getting new gear. "Hotel camping" is fine but I think the outdoor approach is going to be great.

I'd go with one of the newer lightweight air mattresses. I have an Exped (hit up the search, I found out about it here) and a Big Agnes sleeping bag. The BA bags are nice since they have some extra room and still pack small since they rely on the sleeping pad for some insulation. The pad also is "attached" to the sleeping bag so you can't roll off it. Be careful ordering online based soley of weight and warmth, since many mummy bags really do make you feel like you are sleeping in a coffin which is very uncomfortable.

One trick I've found is to inflate your mattress all the way and position the air valve near your head. Get into sleeping position, and drain a bit of air until you are comfy, thus providing a "hip hole." Many make the mistake of thinking a completely full air mattress offers the most comfort.

You dont carry a shovel of some sort while camping? I can't do without my Glock entrenching tool...at a minimum to dig a latrine.