Why such big bikes on gravel/ dirt routes?

Yeah, good points. I said above if there were a 300L less than 280 lbs that would be what I am looking for. Weight is high on my list. When I started riding, most of the two stroke primitive dual sports were much lighter than the bikes today.

You and others probably rip on your 650s. I have been surprised this summer how timid, scared, and slow the 650 class riders were except my buddy on his 690. And we saw how in the very tight and narrow mountian environment the characteristics of the little 'dog' 230L were superior and much faster than a nice expensive enduro motorcycle. Really, I have observed 650 dual sport riders to be so timid on gravel roads and dirt that my thoughts are I could do what they do on my old GT750!

I live surrounded by mountains, singletrack, FS roads that cross the state that I access a few miles out the County road. I bought the 230L for its tight-trail capability and believed it would work for the WABDR. It is great on both counts!

The WR250R is of interest to me for something like riding to and return from the CD from central WA, and it would have been better on some of the extended highway riding that I have done on the little 230L.

Since the beginning of August, I have done the WABDR and other trips crossing the state. On all of my trips I hit dirt, singletrack needing a capable motorcycle, and gravel roads. The little 'dog' 230L actually does it all, even loaded. Not riding fast and hucking, and not really great above 50 on highway. But all around fun! Some other motorcycles would be similar, just need to decide.

You can do it on the 230L. I have a XT-225 that goes everywhere my friends on bigger KTMs go just slower. Last year one of my old, (we're both in our 70s), friends and I took my xt and his 230L to the San Juan Mts. and road all the high passes. The KTMs got to the top quicker but we had a ball.

Side note, the 230L did not have to be rejetted for the elevation.

Phil

Thanks Phil. One of my main worries is that the little dog 230L will be terrible at altitude.. but you saw them do OK, cool.

Yeah, I am 55 and still strong enough to think I can but unfortunately not as flexible as even a decade ago... But I still like that throttle and whatever I ride...will be wound out at times So there is a margin of safety with the 230L or a 250 that is worth considering- especially since I am almost always solo, as I have all of my life, even on gnarly stuff.

Those fast KTMs get left behind by a 230L on the narrow, tight, and gnarly...seen it, lived it BUT, don't care, I ride for me, and ride solo. I really enjoy the scenery, the history, the trip, some folks along the way, the camp. I have no unfulfilled other needs to try to cure with the bigge$t toy or useless roosting followed by hard braking. If I had $1 for every foot that I wheelied on the '70s I could buy a few motorcycles with that! Now I am grown up and have other interests.

How much skill does it take to go smoothly and qulckly on dirt with an underpowered and undersuspended motorcycle, and enjoy it? Perhaps a bit more than the opposite situation.

Edit to add-

Phil I see you live near Pugetopolis. I spent time as a smoke refugee (major fires 50k acres in my county, could not see the sun!) two weeks ago and went from Naches Pass through Seattle for a REI stop, to the ferry out to the coast twice. Sure is a longer trip on the 230L when taking the route to avoid the I-90. I-5, and I-405! But I must say that in that nice clear weather western WA is quite beautiful!

Have you ever a ridden modern performance off road bike? You know, something that weighs as much or less than your 230, with 2-3x as much power, and with good suspension and brakes? You are absolutely kidding yourself when you say that a KTM will be left behind if you make the motorcycle the variable and not the rider.

If you enjoy your 18 blistering horses on a gravel and dirt road that's cool, but there is a reason why most people (who can afford it) would rather ride something else.

And before I hear the "too much maintenance" argument again, you need to educate yourself. For a modern 450-570 KTM/Berg a 10 minute oil change every couple of thousand kilometers should really not be a serious factor.

Valid what you say. But you do not consider what I have described. But lots of assumption and perhaps some derision? Your ego would have been bruised if It was you that I waited for on the tight and gnarly with you on your $10K KTM. Personally, I do not care and do not need to be condescending to others to prop my teutonic ego...

Not surprised that you are yet another condescending, superior KTM cheeleader posting like this. 'If I could afford it.' A88hole. Your are probably stuck living in a 600 sq ft apartment all of your life and driving a little clown car. F'n uppity Euro- wildly jealous of those with wealth and freedom, and of those who own their own property!

Just post elsewhere KTM jerks- not all are like that, my buddy who rides a KTM is not like that at all.

Why not???

It seems I have hit a nerve? It's ok man, I still live in my parents basement, listen to a lot of Euro trash music and I have a very small penis. Now that this is out in the open let's leave your closed minded political BS aside and get back to discussing bikes.

In order for this argument to make any sense you are going to have to take the rider out of the equation. We all know that a better rider will trump a better bike each time, but that's not the point. Your skills are your skills, whether I am going to put you on a KTM or a 230L.

Let me ask again, have you tried out a modern 400-570 KTM/Husaberg/whatever performance off road bike? I don't think you have, because then you could not honestly tell me that you have more fun on your 230L. And you would not ask the question why many riders enjoy faster bikes on gravel and dirt routes.

Trust me, the nerves are close to the surface on this one. I have already been on the receiving end of a nasty gram.

True, have done it. I guess I have some other reasons such as ease of handling in very tight situations, weight, gas mileage. I am not against big bnikes on gravel, I am discussing the pros and cons considering various usage.

It would appear so, he just called me Adolf in another thread... I must have missed the memo that living in Austria makes you a Nazi or something?

That's the kind of discussion I would expect to have with a 12 year old and not a mature and obviously very sedate older (not so gentle)man.

I have decided we must be at fault for not recognizing his extraordinary abilities. Pretty sure he followed Hailwood around the track in the day and passed him on the last lap, taught Malcom Smith how to ride dirt.

He's a real swell fella, a real jewel.

I still do it. I don't have many options really, since I always travel 2-up w/ luggage. A small bike is not an option for me right now. So there goes the big GS up (and down) many gravel roads:

Very nice. I met some guys traveling similarly here, some with their wife on back.

I am fortunate in that I look out the window at mountains that have single track and roads. So a little bike for me is very useful.

Agreed just to do the CD gravel road a big bike would work. I admit, I am after something else, a bike that is easy for offroad or singletrack is more important for me than comfort on highway.

Thanks.

Nothing wrong with that, a man has got to know his priorities!

Ever heard of a used motorcycle? One does not have to drop 10k to have a better bike.

And in regards to your "if it was a 300 with better suspension" comment,

If it was it would cost $1000 more and you fuckers would bitch it was too high strung and you could get a drz

Still undecided. Cannot see yet 100% that spending even $8k to set up a new WR250R will give me $8k worth of improvement over the 230L Adventure (I like that name, it probably pisses off the KTM fascists)

But there is mostly good discussion coming in here, thank you.

Good general points. I paid $2900 for the little dog 230L in May perfect condition with 900 miles.

I have read about water pump failures on the WR250R, so a new one with Warranty may be best. Warranty especialy if I plan to go put lots of miles on the motorcycle traveling.

From what I have observed of guys riding DR 400s in the mountains, I would never have one. I would consider a DR650, great for traveling and looks less top heavy (but still a pig) than a DR 400

I would be happy to pay $7k for my air-cooled Honda CRF300L thumper that weighs <290lbs and has decent suspension.

Ah, man, you sound so angry. You might need to back off the java for awhile. And really dude, Adolf, thats embarrassing. Oh well, off to ride my tractor and fist my cow.

Great Thread and a valid questions for most of us....
Everyone has opinions, some stronger than others !
However we all should be happy to have so many choices and many have choices sitting in the garage beside each-other. How great is that...

Thanks.It looks like you have a XR400R? Looks optimal for what I would want for some adventure routes! Good weight, good stock gas tank, but what is your MPG?

The XR400R is what, 20 lbs lighter than the new CRF250L? Frustruating that such good motorcycles were available in the past and now...lots of heavy pig bikes and unreliable light high-performance bikes.





General information
Model: Honda XR 400 R
Year: 2002
Category: Cross / motocross
Rating: 69.6 out of 100. Show full rating and compare with other bikes
Engine and transmission
Displacement: 397.00 ccm (24.22 cubic inches)
Engine type: Single cylinder, four-stroke
Compression: 9.3:1
Bore x stroke: 85.0 x 70.0 mm (3.3 x 2.8 inches)
Valves per cylinder: 4
Fuel control: SOHC
Cooling system: Air
Gearbox: 5-speed
Transmission type,
final drive: Chain
Chassis, suspension, brakes and wheels
Front suspension travel: 279 mm (11.0 inches)
Rear suspension travel: 300 mm (11.8 inches)
Front tyre dimensions: 80/100-21
Rear tyre dimensions: 110/100-18
Front brakes: Single disc
Rear brakes: Single disc
Physical measures and capacities
Dry weight: 116.6 kg (257.1 pounds)
Seat height: 930 mm (36.6 inches) If adjustable, lowest setting.
Ground clearance: 310 mm (12.2 inches)
Wheelbase: 1,425 mm (56.1 inches)
Fuel capacity: 11.40 litres (3.01 gallons)
Reserve fuel capacity: 1.80 litres (0.48 gallons)