Fay Meyer Parts pissing me off....

Appreciate you taking the time to reply... I certainly appreciate you are all moto enthusiasts, riders, KTM fans, and all around great guys.

But for me, the point is this:

There is nothing "special" about adding a 4 oz KTM OEM repair part to your weekly KTM order. Making OEM repair parts available easily and for a fair price should be viewed as the cost of doing business, not a high margin profit center.

I'd also venture to guess that 80%, maybe even 90% of that parts inventory is aftermarket gear and accessories, not OEM parts. High margin goods that I'm sure Fay makes a very decent revenue/profit stream from. I think it's great that you stock that gear, and have bought tons of aftermarket gear from FM. And if I go in and want to order a Klim jacket or Michelin tire that you don't stock, sure, go ahead and charge me your 'special order' fee.

Just not for OEM repair parts!
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But if not of that sways you, consider this: Your cost of new customer acquisition is quite large. Advertising, promotions, web sites, etc. to get one net new customer through your parts department door. Losing an active customer and all current and future parts purchase revenue because you aggravate them to the breaking point with bogus 'special order' fees for inexpensive OEM repair parts is just bad business. The proverbial 'Penny wise and pound foolish'.

Several scumbag dealerships do this. I had it happen at 3 different dealerships (chevy/gmc) do this to me last year. Ads ran for over a week. A complete scam.

Last year I was in need of a new KTM and Elite had the bike I wanted on a close out price. Called at 9am to see talk about it and it was still there, same price as advertised on Craigslist. Told him I had to get home, get my trailer and head up. I walk in the door and I say " So where is my new bike!!!!!" The guy by the bikes gives the biggest facepalm I have ever seen. " I just sold it. 15 min ago" Shows me the tag on the bars saying sold. The buyer was still in the shop getting some goodies. I could not believe my luck. HOWEVER. the sales guy told me to hang while he went into his office.. He comes out with an incredible smoking deal on a new Husaberg. I mean great deal. I had to ponder it. Told him to give me a few min while I walked around and gathered my thoughts.. He comes up to me and says. " Remember, this is a great deal, but it is also not the bike you came here for. Don't make a hasty purchase and make a mistake." Wow, I was blown away. Honesty at its finest. I passed on buying the berg, but bought some ktm schwag. I like Elite over all the others.

The input from Fay's person still doesn't sway me. At this point in my life I have a little bit more money than time. Using up a rare lunch break to drive downtown to the bike dealer, wait to order a part, order the part, pay, and then drive back to to office kills an hour easy. Then I need to trek back down there for the part when they call. If they call. Let's just call it one hour even.

Or, I can sit at my desk at work, or my home office in the morning, and click click click on, say, ktmtwins.com, pay with my online account, do not pay taxes, and have the part on it's way the same day. It usually arrives in 3-4 days. Which is often less time than it takes the local dealer to get the part ordered, get it in stock, and then call me. I did not have to use an hour of my time, a gallon or more of gas, and deal with someone at the counter who might not get my order right anyway.

Hmm. Let me see. And in the case of Fay, they are going to charge me a small "fee" in any case for their services.

During the work week I often have zero time available to take that hour out to drive to the dealer. I'm on business travel, busy, or just can't get away. On the weekends in riding season, I'm riding or recreating. Not hanging out at the dealer. For a lot of us we just cram too much stuff into our lives and don't have a lot of spare time. I have more money than time and am not going to waste it going to the dealer to order some oil filters, spark plugs, air filter, or even a major part when I can do it with my fingertips. A few years ago I restored a 1981 BMW R80 G/S from the frame up and after dealing with the three Colorado BMW dealers, I ended up doing 100% of my parts business, about $4500 worth, over the internet with a big BMW dealer back east who had a web presence and shipping department that was first rate. Saved me money and time.

If the local dealers don't do something to change the typical owner's behavior they will eventually run out of old farts like me. I can guarantee them that a lot of the younger generation have already moved over to the online model and may never switch back.

Summary: It's about: Money, Time, the "Experience" of being at the dealer not being what is was, and Convenience.

It matters not if the person behind the counter rides a BMW, Honda, or KTM. Or owns nothing. I am there to get what I need, get it at a fair price (not higher than retail), and get it home. The bigger picture is that going in for parts was part of my bike dealer experience to wander around the showroom and eye future potential purchases of new bikes. Or spot the occasional cool old bike (and buy it). When someone moves to the online parts and accessories purchase model the dealer loses all of that as well. In Fay's case, they are so big it felt like a Walmart. My wife browsed looking at jackets for about 45 minutes or so (while we carried the pager our salesman gave us to wait for closing) and not one person even walked up to her. Wow.

Not just picking on Fay here, but Apex is the same. My recent experience of trying to purchase a helmet with my wife told us clearly that they either don't care or just took us for granted. Guess what? You lose.

Tom

You nailed it PFB.

We just ordered a large bag of dog food at the little pet place here in a brand they did not carry. They had it added on to their regular weekly shipment from Denver and it got here yesterday on their regular weekly shipment with no 'special order' handling fee added on. We'll keep going there for our doggie food. I won't go to FM for my dog food either. Oh... and the price was $6 under the other place in town that does carry this brand. Go figure.

I was thinking about this more today.

First off thank you to the Fay Meyer guy for posting. That alone takes some balls to do, as you can never make everyone happy. Especially on this silly thing called the Internet.

I would think a "special order" part would be one that your ordering outside of your normal routine order. Meaning if your normal order is placed every Friday, but Bob comes in on Wednesday and NEEDS the part ASAP and you place the order to KTM (or whoever) to ship that day or the next (depends on time of day of course) then that is a "special order" as it falls outside your routine ordering procedure. This I can totally understand and see KTM charging you Fay Meyer a small fee for going outside your scheduled order. But then I would say did you give Bob the option to just let you tack it onto your NORMAL order to avoid the FEE??? Not all of us wait on stuff.

However if the part order is placed Wednesday by Bob but you don't ACTUALLY place the order till Friday with KTM along with your normal routine order that is not "special" and I'm sure KTM is not charging you an added fee to place another part onto your order. That part is just being added to your usual order. No one at KTM had to do anything outside their normal routine to fill your order. Hence no added expense was incurred by you or KTM to fill the order.

This is what I picture. Someone comes in and needs an oil filter, you happen to be out. They say fine with you ordering it. Lets say the oil filter cost $5, so because its under $100 your going to charge an added FEE and call it SPECIAL!!! Am I correct so far? However its a NORMAL item that you typically stock (rightfully so), so its not really a "special" order but one you should be placing sooner anyways to restock your inventory ASAP. Empty shelves means less sales.

I have to agree with people here that have said it, but parts especially common maintenance items should not be a huge money maker. A "special" ordering fee should not be placed onto them. Parts is something I come in, you don't have I then turn to online or another store for that business. Then again a "special" order fee for a certain boot I want is silly too, your already selling the gear at more then online places do 99% of the time so your going to tack on another FEE just to order and get the persons business.

This is where sales staff needs to have flexibility in knowing what FM pays for various stock. Lets say the boots cost $400 MSRP, but Fay Meyers paid $300. Customer says, well its $350 online...that is when the sales guy needs to be able to say okay...$350 it is...better to make $50 then loose the sale completely. There is a reason why big box stores price match a) they learn what the competition is selling stuff for and b) it makes the customer happy and thus more likely to return and spend more $$$$. It's about REPEAT business.

I guess what I am saying is build the FEE into the cost...why break it down so the customer feels your just tacking fees on. Or explaining to them its outside your normal routine ordering so they either a) wait the extra days or b) willing to place the order knowing they will get it sooner rather then later. It sounds like people still wait though when paying this "special" ordering fee...which is not right as it does not then become "special" but rather a "normal" order.

Seeing as I have only dealt with FM on the misc side of things like chain lube, cleaner, bro got me my GoPro Extended Batter Pac there all stuff you had in stock. I can say never once did someone in Parts area come up and say "Can I help you". I have seen them stand around chit-chatting. Maybe I run a hardship, but if I were paying them I need you too be busy as there is always stuff to do in a business. Or you know what ACT busy...LOL

I know, we the customer are dumb to you the store employee (sometimes we are)...but some of us remember have run businesses have dealt with budgets, and do understand and have a since of how a business should and could operate. FM needs to really sit down and address these "special fees". If a few Internet people think they are silly, that means there are probably hundreds of OTHERS that don't post online that also agree that they are silly.

Sorry for the long post...FM can do what they want with THEIR business model. All we can do is give you input and you can do what you want with it.

Just to be completely fair to FM, this is not exactly now it works... You do not get charged a special order fee if it is a normally stocked part that they are out of. You do get charged a special order fee if it is not a normally stocked part that, obviously, they are also out of.

So if FM decides, as a hypothetical example, to stock oil filters for a 2010 KTM 450 XC-W, but not stock oil filters for a 2010 KTM 150 SX, I pay a 'special order' fee on the 150 filter, but not the 450 filter.

My point is that if FM decides not to stock particular KTM repair parts that I need, that's bad for me. If they charge me an extra fee because they don't stock it, double bad for me, enough so that I'll just go elsewhere, which I don't think is what FM really wants.

Try 60 bikes to date, and not one good roadtrip to pick one up. The furthest was up to Vail from Boulder for a mint TL 1000. What was I thinking all these years? Next new bike will come from near the Tail of the Dragon.

Schroader's Honda in Hendersonville, NC was where I bought the Wing, Sept 01. I met a buddy from Charlotte, rode some unbelievable roads including a section of BRP..We had lunch at Jamie James' cajun restaurant....and I headed for the Dragon on a weekday afternoon. Nobody on it.

Since this is sales based I'll chime in on the Bait and Switch accusation. I'll probably say a few others things in this post that may piss some people off. But in the end, I love this place, if I didn't love motorcycles, most of the people that ride them, and working here, I wouldn't have done it for as long as I have.

We have over 10 salesman here at Fay Myers...probably more then any other dealership in Colorado. We sell quite a few motorcycles on a daily basis and were the 1# KTM dealership in our Region in 2011 and hope to be for 2012 as well. We sell a TON of KTM's and sell them almost everyday. There have been plenty of times that I've had a bike in stock and available in the morning and literally 30 minutes or less after I hung up the phone or sent my email that bike is rolling out the door, especially if I only had one. Was there a deal already on it and I didn't realize, maybe, could someone of left a deposit over the phone while I was stating it was available....it happens. Now, by the sounds of this thread we've pissed off so many customers in either Sales, Parts or Service that we shouldn't even be in business. I've been here 17 years and have a lot of repeat and referral business, I guess I must be the exception, or a fluke.

Have you ever tried to buy a car from any car dealership from their Saturday ad....notice the stock number? They call them price leaders, they are designed to get people in the door, that's a pretty standard thing in the way of cars. If you call and can't get the car that's in the ad, or go down to the dealership and can't get the car in the ad because it's been sold, and they offer you something else, do you accuse them of Bait and Switch? You saw a bike on CL, called, it wasn't available anylonger but we had 2012 models. That's Bait and Switch? It's not like you left a deposit on it and had a deal worked out, came down to the store to buy it then we told you it sold but we have 2012 models for retail. So if we have a pre-owned bike on our site, someone calls in but that bike has sold and we tell them we have a similar bike but it's a little more money thats a Bait and Switch tactic? Really?

As a business we try a lot of different things and try to think out of the box to not only benefit the dealership but also try to benefit our customers as well. We do giveaways, we give bikes away we donate to Charitable Organizations all the time. We have free Open Houses with food, entertainment, trials riders, stunt riders, all to show appreciation for the friends and customers that help keep our doors open. We've spent an obscene amount of money on freight costs in parts over the years....is it because we have nothing and have to order it? Maybe...but we also pay freight on stocking orders too...nothings free. We'd love to stock every single thing your KTM, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Ducati, Aprilia, MV Agusta, Piaggio or Vespa needs...but the majority of those parts sit in drawers, take up space, money and collect dust. They are trying something to help offset some of that cost, is it perfect..nope, by the sounds of it it's not. I worked for the Dirt Broker before Fays...they had EVERYTHING in stock for your KTM....you know what, 50% of it sat, and sat, they had so much money tied up in inventory for the "Just in Case" part that it was ridiculous.

We want feedback, it makes us a better company. If you don't like a policy we have you can bitch about it on the internet, that's fine, but if it wasn't for me being a member of this forum these 11 pages of rants would have fallen on deaf ears. If you want to try and make it better in the future, talk to someone that can actually change it. By reading this thread I think most probably don't care, they won't come in here regardless. But if you frequent here and you think we have something to offer you, let us know so we can improve your shopping experience.

Thanks for reading, I'm a motorcycle salesman so my rant may not make the most sense, my grammar and punctuation may not be the best either. This is really just my opinion and my personal stance on it...management probably wouldn't approve of it either. I guess I take it too personal. If you want a bike let me know....I'll be sure to screw you over and jerk you around. Or maybe give you a price then change it when you get here...... I love it when people are pissed at me!

Bryan,

Thanks for posting. You are in a bit of a tough spot. I'm a bit sorry for starting this thread that turned into a massive dogpile dump on-FM. Clearly it hit a nerve...

As I said in the first post and several follow on posts, I have zero issue with FM employees. I know several (including you!) and wouldn't for a second think that there were "unethical" business practices going on. Other people's opinion might differ.

My sole issue and the genesis of this thread was the combination of not stocking enough of what I'd consider to be pretty common parts plus charging for 'special order' freight on those parts. Whatever it costs to ship a KTM oil filter (dumped in a box with dozens of other KTM parts), it certainly doesn't cost more to ship an oil filter that you don't stock vs. one that you do.

FM is going to do what FM is going to do, but my suggestion is to eliminate special order fees on parts that:

• Are not expedited.
• Do not come in a separate shipment from regularly ordered parts.
• Are from vendors that you receive constant orders from, OEM parts vendors, Tucker-Rocky, Parts Unlimited, etc.
• Particularly OEM repair parts.

Perfect!! Like I said, I'm just a salesman, but your 4 bullet points makes it so much easier to take to someone that does make the decisions.

Just because a customer say at a restaurant does not complain does not mean they are satisfied with their meal either. I been the "nice" guy and I'm sure you have where the steak in too well done, or they forgot something and they come by and say, "how is everything" and the response from you is "it's fine"...but in reality it is not. It also does not mean I won't go again necessarily unless the service or product is just no good each and every time. So don't assume as a business everything is fine just because the customer does not say so.

I see KTM has two dealers in Denver am I right? (Sun and Fay Myer's).

So of course you will have REPEAT business in regard to KTM's. Lets face it, most people are not driving to KS to get their motorcycle, most would consider going to Springs too far. So yeah I would expect you to have repeat business....even some of the WORST dealers stay in business. Gold Gate Cycle in CA comes to mind....LOL Known in the motorcycling community as the WORST. Not saying FM is on that level to be fair...just saying though staying in business in some business don't mean much.

Don't take it personal, because nothing here is direct at YOU, its directed at FM's fee policy. Okay I guess my comment of some employee's standing around chit-chatting...but it happens in every business. It's just annoying when its retail is all. A customer should come first before their cellphone and texting. Oh, and you might be a great salesman...I'm willing to give you a shot.

As for the bikes selling. Well its known in the auto industry as dealers doing just that. Put an ad for a loaded such and such, when person comes in it's magically sold. Maybe it did, but then again its the best bait & switch because you the customer would never be able to PROVE it. I do realize things sell...wife & I were out in a test drive once in a new Lincoln MkZ and it sold while we were out int he test drive...our salesman was furious at the other salesman (they have a procedure so it doe snot happen, but sometimes things happen). Do I think he was bait & switching no, because I bought 2 other vehicles from him. Did he push something else, NOPE he apologized and we left (previous model year so nothing he could do). It happens....

But surely you can understand with it being pretty commonly used as a bait & switch technique that people will question that practice.Most of the time, its not "it just sold and its over there", its no where in sight *shrug*. So did the place have it, or not...again a customer can never prove this type of bait & switch.

Take from what we all say what you want. But don't let it wreck your day personally as its not YOU its FM...we get that.

I have been in Fay Meyers several times over the years and have been actually waited on just once in the parts department. I figure I'm on my own and if I cannot locate the part on my own I'll have to go somewhere else. I was in two weeks ago looking for a replacement exhaust shroud, never could get help but there were five friendly parts people behind the counter. I went to Performance on Broadway,was contacted by a sales person before I got near the cash register and was out the door in about 18 minutes. I once went into Fay Meyers to purchase a simple light bulb and while unscrewing the bulb the bulb broke off at the base so I couldn't read the part number. I asked if I could borrow a pliar just to unscrew the bulb, I was told no we don't loan tools and to go home and unscrew the bulb and come back and they will be happy to sell me one. Seeing how I live outside Elizabeth 23 miles away I didn't feel like driving the 92 miles for a bulb. I then told them my bulb was identical to the aftermarket lights that were hanging on the hook and pointed it out,I was told we don't have any idea whats in the light that was in the product on the shelf. OK I said F-it and left. I figure if you please a customer on small thing he might come back to make a bigger purchase. My business now goes to Bill at Vickery or Performance. I don't understand Fay Meyers way of doing business but for the most part it won't be my business, I'm happy they get referrals etc but the one on one customer contact sucks.

Bryan: I appreciate you and your help with the purchase of the 2012 500 XCW; and the fact you had the bike I wanted in stock (and for less than retail - which is what other Colorado dealers I called were asking.. who didn't have the bike I wanted in stock).



I have no comment on parts @ FM as I live what turns out to be a 3 hour round trip; so I don't make it down that way often.

.....for me to chime-in on this thread. I read the opening post, and haven't looked at anything else until the last 2 pages of comments tonight.I'm in a similar line of work, and do business-to-business with Fay Myers several times monthly on the parts side. I have an old friend working there, whom I trust implicitly. He receives my purchase orders, processes the parts and paperwork, and deals with my customers personally - to make certain they get the right schtuff. My customers know damn-well that they can buy direct from my friend, but going through my business first makes sense to them for various reasons. I have no complaints with Fay Myers, nor with my friend - more importantly, neither do my customers. That being said, EVERY END USER PAYS FREIGHT. Be it an up-front fee, built into the margins, or wherever it's hiding. When I buy in large enough quantities from my business vendors to get 'free freight', it just means that they are taking a margin-hit, offset by a big-dollar order. I deal with this reality constantly, every working day. Spend more, get a little spiff. That all goes away if the bills don't get paid on time. YES, even in a business-to-business transaction, I PAY THE SHIPPING FEE AT FAY MYERS. And NO, I don't like it, either! In the end, my customer's patrons end up footing the bill anyways.....I'm not eating it, just passing it along.Without my friend handling said transactions, I'd make more money on each deal, but make more mistakes and spend a lot more effort than I do now. Time is of a premium in my position, especially this time of year. But I'm not likely to trust anyone else with this kinda deal other than my friend - even the folks at Fay Myers. He didn't know of this thread until this afternoon, until I brought it up. I'm certain all these thread's comments will make it upstairs at Fay Myers shortly, if not already there now. Time will tell how this shakes out with each of you, both inmates and employees at FM.....

I'll chime in now that the Fay Meyer rep did.

A good shop and good customer sevice and care is easy to spot. . . Fay's hasn't either in my experiences. In fact, in my experiences, they aren't even a consideration when I do my shopping (any of it).

The shops I use are both without extra charges for parts they order for me. That (extra charges), would be ridiculous. Shipping and stocking charges? Ha!

Pretty near anytime you go to a massive store like Fay's, you're going to get the shaft. . . that's their business. Lots of brands, lots of "sidewalk appeal", lots of funky salesmen ready to rake ya, but little follow-up, customer support, or basic care for that matter. It's big business, folks.

Try the smaller shops for the real deal (and real people). . . and to save some real bucks! Also, if you want some real feedback and real effort with your problems (or desires), then try the smaller shops.
Not only have I never been charged shipping BS, but I consistently get a discount on all of my purchases (and yes, I've checked).

I'm shopping for a bike (and have been for the last month), so I'm a bit jaded from so many absurd prices out there on used bikes (private and dealer). That said, if my shop were to come by the bike I'm hunting for, it'd be the best price (dealer or private) out there. . . and in that I'm confident. That says a lot about a business, and their ethics.

My very favorite shop, that defines good customer support/feedback, and good deals (no D&H fees, etc) is MotoAdventure Kawasaki/Gas-Gas, in Loveland. (I'll print this out and bring it in for an extra discount!!)

As far as the bait and switch scenarios go.. If the bike has sold, then pull that bike off the internet.. The internet is how everyone does their research and prospecting. It is simple quick and easy to go in and put "Sold" on the ad, or pull that bike off. This should be standard . I understand it can go a day before you pull the bike off the net, but several days or even weeks is just bullshit as you can see from the buyer's comments on this thread.

I can post on here defending until I'm blue in the face, it's really not going to change the way people feel, it just turns into a bigger pile. I'd be happy to help any inmates out to the best of my ability in your new bike purchase if you choose to give myself and the store a shot.


Ride and be safe everyone!!

One more Fay love story. I've been checking the oil and final drive oil levels on both bikes since we bought them (not quite 2 weeks). I had only ridden my wife's Vespa a few miles since we got it. I got on it today and said WTF. This is after coming back from a 50+ mile ride and the bike has almost 300 miles on it now.

Rode the bike back in the garage and checked the air pressure in the tires. Front had 12.5 and rear had 13. Front should be 26 and rear 29 (for a solo rider, higher for riding 2up). Holy crap. I've either gotten the fastest leaking tires in the world or Fay didn't even check them. The bike was a leftover 2010 with about 70 test drive miles on it. Meaning it's likely sat there, or in the back for quite some time. Despite going in the back to be "prepped" for the test ride it still had a loose mirror (which we asked them to fix and they did) but either they didn't check the air pressure in months and months or something is wrong. The other bike, the 2013 Piaggio scooter was dead on, meaning it did have someone check it.

It's my bad as I did check the oil, final drive level, and coolant level when I got home. But since both bikes went into the back to be "prepped" for test rides and were back there 30+ minutes you would think one of those items would be to check the tire pressure. Lesson learned. I am so glad my wife didn't have an accident due to this it makes me sick.

Once I added the right amount of air the bike handled really nice, just like it should.

Tom

I think ADV is one the few places around where a man can admit to owning a loving a Vespa with no dogpile.

(FYI, I owned a scooter once...most fun riding I ever had on the pavement)