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Old 10-25-2005, 08:14 AM   #16
Hellcat
Le Grand
 
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Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Land of the poutine, Canuckistan
Oddometer: 118
Same thing happens to me once in a while with my 02 adventure. My solution is to put the bike on the centerstand, sit on it so the front wheel is off the ground, turn the handlebars to the left and squeeze the front brake lever a few times till the pressure on the brake lever gets back to normal ( I also shake my right foot and rub my belly counter clockwise with my left hand while doing this....and when the pressure is back I get off the bike, do a little dance, then do a back flip with my right index finger up my left nostril then get on my stomac and do the worm dance while singing "we will rock you" from Quiet Riot... ). The trick here is to elevate the Master cylinder as high as possible so the the air can migrate into the master cylinder and not stay in the line.
There is no leak of fluid anywhere on the system, the brake fluid level stays the same and Its a bit of a mistery to me where the air comes from. I've bled the system once before with complete brake fluid change etc...and it still the problem happens once in a while. If you guys find out where the problem comes from, please let me know. This problem is frustrating especially coming from a high quality manufacturer like Brembo.

Cheers
Hellcat


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoot Jockey
My 2003 Adventure does the same thing if I let it sit for more than two or three weeks. As far as a permanent fix, I haven't found one. Air must be creeping into the caliper somehow. Two tricks that have helped me are:

1. First, I purge the caliper by carefully and firmly squeezing the piston side of the caliper towards the disc, thus creating a gap between the opposite "fixed" brake pad and the disc.

2. Next turn your handlebars to the left, raising your fluid reservoir to the highest point. Hold the upper curve of the brake line down to create a downwards run from the reservoir to the caliper, then begin squeezing the brake lever slowly, and firmly to bring the air bubbles up. You could even have the cap off of the reservoir at this point to check the air release, and monitor the fluid level.

A lot of times I will just do the second step, and it will make things rock solid again.

Regards,
Scoot
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Old 10-25-2005, 03:58 PM   #17
clintnz OP
Trans-Global Chook Chaser
 
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Joined: May 2004
Location: Rotoiti, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellcat
( I also shake my right foot and rub my belly counter clockwise with my left hand while doing this....and when the pressure is back I get off the bike, do a little dance, then do a back flip with my right index finger up my left nostril then get on my stomac and do the worm dance while singing "we will rock you" from Quiet Riot... )
Cheers
Hellcat
Aaahh.. thats it! I had my left finger up my right nostril, It's bound to work next time...

Thanks for the tips though, if I can get the air out without bleeding the system the problem is not so serious. I'll get the seal kits for the M/C & caliper anyway & swap them in next time I'm bored on a rainy day, I think Esteban is right about it being the M/C. Hopefully It's not a dodgy bore.

I must have missed that episode of South Park, I'm not much of a regular TV watcher. I should get the DVD's sometime & catch up on the ones I've missed.

Cheers
Clint
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The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?
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Old 10-25-2005, 05:56 PM   #18
mikeyb
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Joined: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Oddometer: 505
I had the same mushy brake after a few weeks of no use on my 625sxc.
I searched ktmtalk and this seems to be a common problem with these brakes.
The claim is that the design allows an air bubble to form where the banjo bolt goes into the master cylinder and that normal bleeding won't get rid of it.
Some guys have drilled an extra hole into the banjo bolt so the air won't collect in the top half of the banjo. They claim that works well.

I just went for the quick fix which is taking the master cyclinder off the bars and holding it vertically while pumping the lever to work the air up into the reservoir.
I plan to try drilling the bolt the next time I change the fluid.
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Old 10-25-2005, 07:17 PM   #19
Donkey Hotey
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Location: 20 Mule Team Trail (Palmdale, Ca)
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I can give you a quick way of bleeding the brake without any tools (though you'll get some brake dust on your hands).

Get down next to the caliper and disk. Reach your hands behind the caliper and put your fingers on the pads. Give a good steady squeeze. What you're trying to do is push the pads and pistons back into the caliper. If your pistons are clean and the caliper is working as designed, they should easily float right back into their bores.

What this does is force the fluid back up to the master cylinder--with quite a bit of velocity if you do it right. Once you get that done, go back upstairs and pump the brake back up with the lever. Voila! Instant bled brakes.

In truth, this is a little trick I've done for years to get all that trapped air out of the system. I vacuum bleed downhill to get it pretty close and force the remainder of the bubbles back up using the method described above.
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Old 10-25-2005, 08:33 PM   #20
clintnz OP
Trans-Global Chook Chaser
 
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Joined: May 2004
Location: Rotoiti, New Zealand
Oddometer: 3,261
Thanks for the tips guys, it always seems to take a bit of jiggling before it bleeds up (although both times it has come good) so if next time forcing the pistons in don't do it I might try taking the M/C off & holding it up to see if there is air in the banjo.

But how do I get rid of the Elves???

Cheers
Clint
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Old 10-25-2005, 08:46 PM   #21
2whlrcr
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Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Dubuque, Iowa
Oddometer: 5,349
I had the same problem on both my 02 Adventure and the 03 KTM 200 EXC I used to have. I took it to the dealer after trying to bleed the system myself with no luck. The dealer tried to rebleed the system, charged me $60 bucks and returned the bike to me with no improvement. They told me "that's just the way KTM's are". Bullshit, I called KTM and they told me I probably had to replace the master cylinder. This was on a bike with 80 miles, but was out of warranty. That incident pretty much soured me on my local dealer and KTM USA in general. I probably won't buy another KTM and I have owned three. Anyway I saw this posted somewhere and thought it sounded silly, but what the hell, I had nothing to lose, since KTM could care less.

A temporary fix for me was to kneel down on the floor of the left side of the bike, turn the wheel to the left, put my knee up against the caliper while pulling the wheel against my knee with my left hand, reaching up and squeezing the brake lever rapidly about a dozen times. Stand up and pump the brake back up and presto, firmness would return.

I know it sounds ridiculous and I'm not sure why it works, but it did on both of my bikes. It only lasts for a few days, or just gets me through a race.
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Old 10-27-2005, 09:31 AM   #22
wachs
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Joined: May 2005
Location: Tumalo, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoot Jockey
My 2003 Adventure does the same thing if I let it sit for more than two or three weeks. As far as a permanent fix, I haven't found one. Air must be creeping into the caliper somehow. Two tricks that have helped me are:

1. First, I purge the caliper by carefully and firmly squeezing the piston side of the caliper towards the disc, thus creating a gap between the opposite "fixed" brake pad and the disc.

2. Next turn your handlebars to the left, raising your fluid reservoir to the highest point. Hold the upper curve of the brake line down to create a downwards run from the reservoir to the caliper, then begin squeezing the brake lever slowly, and firmly to bring the air bubbles up. You could even have the cap off of the reservoir at this point to check the air release, and monitor the fluid level.

A lot of times I will just do the second step, and it will make things rock solid again.

Regards,
Scoot

Same problem with my '02 adventure. if i just open the reservoir and add like a drop or two of fluid it returns to normal. also, if I just ride the thing a mile or two it'll return to normal. it's as if it needs to warm up the fluid. cannot figure out where/if the leak is. no crashes, no leaks just mushy if it sits too long. weird.
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