Avoid BMW of San Francisco

[merckx55]

Here's a good one...

i go on a 12k trip in europe and north africa on my 99 gs.

incredible trip. morocco, spain, france, germany, italy, austria, italy, and portugal.

take my bike via mike mandell inc. from the us to germany. travel incredible roads at incredible speeds.

come back to a nightmare...

i bring my bike into bmw of sf for the 24k level 2 inspection.
pay $1,100.

what do i get for $1,100: disrespect, and bad workmanship. as i write my gs is downstairs leaking oil all over the floor. they had it 6 weeks. they treated me like an ass because my bike was out of warranty. i was planning to buy a 2003 from them, but they treated me so badly I might not even buy a new gs! that's how bad i was treated.

anyone thinking of buying from bmw of san francisco please write me, i will tell you why NOT to do this: these guys are chimps who will screw you.

especially the motorcycle manager Larry, this guy is an idiot.

stay away from this ditributor. go to Cal BMW in Moutain View or BMW of Marin.

You have been warned!

Be Safe Out There!

--John

[Ricardo Kuhn]

I predict a STORM is comming

[nachtflug]

didnt you have some sort of understanding what you were getting when you left him your bike?

as in how much $$$.

there are 2 sides to every story.

what are the parts

what were the labor charges?

[traveltoad]

It is true that California state law requires the repairer to give you a $$ estimate when you drop off your vehicle. If the final bill is going to be more than 10% more than the estimated amount they are required to contact you to get authorization. If they did not do those things you should contact the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR), all mechanic shop are required to post the 800 number at the shop.

All that being said... I too would stay away. They guys at Monroe Motors used to work on BMWs I don't know if they still do.

[Zoul]

Originally posted by Whammo
To quote a former bike salesman, "SF BMW views motorcycles as a gateway purchase towards a BMW car".

explains a lot, doesn't it?

If they treated someone that bad why they even think about buying a car there?

[Ricardo Kuhn]

I think this is the Perfect TIME to ask:
since the days from BCW I dream about opening a motorcycle shop in san francisco,(those GUYs SUCK Big time,actually some of them) this still a dream but the circunstances make it more and more real,the cases are more and more palpable that is a necesity for a profesional and costumer friendlly,SHOP.
so I have a few questions here:
will you be willing to pay a competive rate,if you get a very professional treatment in everyway,if you get treated with respect and of course get a loaner(if need to0)?
many of those jobs that make you ride a Loaner Bike for Two weeks,can be done really fast if you have the TOOLS and more Important than that, the Willingness to do them(for sure some places lack those assets)

here comes my "take" I want to open a shop that actually WORKS on the Bikes,you know WELD, fabricate,FIX as opposee to replace( I do know is way more money on selling parts,than fixing parts)call me CraZY but i think a city like san francisco have a sufficient amount of costumers to justied a effort like this.
Hell i have people comming from all over to Install the BARS ,and we do them more or less on the street,and we still have fun,just imagine if WE have a ruff over our heads.

This will be a SHOP,more than a STORE,will be more Willy wonKa whan just another starbucks,they are bike stores every were in this City,but I don't think any of them follow the "Old school" quality tradiccions,they are all the same,only worry about the Profit TODAY,I totally belive if you do a really job today you will have more work tomorrrow.
Please let me know if I'm just dreaming,or my ideas STILL(in this Times) make sence.:1zhelp

Thanks.
BE Honest,is better that way

[jdiaz]

Well, someone with repair experience (you know who you are) in the trenches can quote this better than me, but didn't mechanics get into part replacement mode in the first place to save the customer (or maybe the mfgr during warranty) money? Ricardo makes a comment that replacing parts is more expensive, but at the BMW shop level, I'd bet it turns out to be cheaper to replace certain things than to diagnose/repair them, by the time labor is added in.

If you are going to hang out a shingle, then you gotta have a roof, insurance, a couple of employees getting a passable living wage, and a million other things. Say you gotta generate $100K/year in revenue to pay all these folks, and assuming $2000/week coming in, that's 4-6 significant repair jobs a week. Motorcycle repair looks like a tough way to make money.

Jon

[traveltoad]

M/C repair is a very tough way to make money! There is a huge difference between helping friends save some money by repairing rather than replacing some parts in you garage and running a shop. There can be a lot of liability in repairing parts and if a mechanic is going to charge for his/her time (especially in a place like SF) it can also get very expensive. Don't forget about all those /5's with 1,000,000,000,000 miles that are in for the 600 mile service! Of course it was perfect when it was dropped off! Of course since your shop put air in the tires: the top end has had a funny knocking noice and there is blue smoke when it's started (if it starts) and the battery goes dead and the seat doesn't latch easily and the petcock leaks and the brakes squeel and the seat is torn and the side stand is bent and the turn signal switch doesn't work, so what are going to do about it! Yes, I'm a recovering BMW shop worker!

[jdiaz]

Originally posted by traveltoad
Don't forget about all those /5's with 1,000,000,000,000 miles that are in for the 600 mile service! Of course it was perfect when it was dropped off! Of course since your shop put air in the tires: the top end has had a funny knocking noice and there is blue smoke when it's started (if it starts) and the battery goes dead and the seat doesn't latch easily and the petcock leaks and the brakes squeel and the seat is torn and the side stand is bent and the turn signal switch doesn't work, so what are going to do about it!

I know those /5 owners!

Jon

[GSLarry]

Originally posted by ricardo kuhn

This will be a SHOP,........will be more Willy wonKa whan just another starbucks,.......I don't think any of them follow the "Old school" quality tradiccions,......I totally belive if you do a really job today you will have more work tomorrrow.
Please let me know if I'm just dreaming,or my ideas STILL(in this Times) make sence.:1zhelp......
BE Honest,is better that way

Ricardo, I met you only once, and was really impressed that you probably tackle any project you believe in with entheusiasm, but doing business here in the City is a major pain in the ass. Mounds of permits, fees, compliance reports, insurance requirements, disposal documentation, tax conformations (including regular sales tax audits), employee related documentations, benefits, policies, etc. My guess is you would have a major headache before you put the torch to a frame. (And any investors in your buisness will probably require copies of all this crap, making sure you're legit. After a short while, they'll want to see the books and wonder why the money's not rolling in yet.). And you'll be frustrated because the innovation design project bikes sit under a tarp while you do tire changes, bulb replacements, and oil changes to pay the landlord. You may be better off going out to Hunter's Point (old shipyard facility), rent a studio space as an "artist", and work for cash under the table. And even then, some schmuck will fall off his bike you modified, his attorney will put the fangs in his mouth, and grab what he can from you. Sorry to paint a bleak picture, but after 32 years in buisness in SF, I've seen it all and I'm a bit disgusted. Good luck to you.
GSLarry
P.S. At the very least, if you havn't already, take a buisness class or two at City College or similar. The cost is minimal, and worth it-could save you some of the headaches later.

Originally posted by ricardo kuhn
I think this is the Perfect TIME to ask:
since the days from BCW I dream about opening a motorcycle shop in san francisco,( costumer friendlly,SHOP.

This will be a SHOP,more than a STORE,will be more Willy wonKa whan just another starbucks Please let me know if I'm just dreaming,or my ideas STILL(in this Times) make sence.:1zhelp

Thanks.
BE Honest,is better that way

Go for it Recardo! this is the way motorcycle shops used to be.
Reminds me of a bike shop I used to hang out at back in the 70s
"Brothers M/C" two brothers who could fix anything, way cool guys, if you bought parts from them( and sometimes even when you did not) they would take the time to show you how to install them, in my case even let you use their tools.
8am to 5pm they worked on bikes, no slacking. but they always took time to be nice to customers, "Hey man, can't talk more now come back after 5 and we'll hang"
After 5pm was bench racing, project bikes and general BS. they had a old fridge in the back storeroom where you stashed whatever you brought, and a 30 gal barrel with handle bars and a seat off a Honda mini trail, suspended about 4 ft off the floor via 4 3/8 chains and a mat on the floor under it.. Wild ride!


Can I come sweep the floors when you get the shop going ?
sounds like you have the right stuff to pull something like this off.
Cheers.

[Chopperman]

Originally posted by Tracker
Go for it Recardo! this is the way motorcycle shops used to be.
Reminds me of a bike shop I used to hang out at back in the 70s
"Brothers M/C" two brothers who could fix anything, way cool guys, if you bought parts from them( and sometimes even when you did not) they would take the time to show you how to install them, in my case even let you use their tools.
8am to 5pm they worked on bikes, no slacking. but they always took time to be nice to customers, "Hey man, can't talk more now come back after 5 and we'll hang"
After 5pm was bench racing, project bikes and general BS. they had a old fridge in the back storeroom where you stashed whatever you brought, and a 30 gal barrel with handle bars and a seat off a Honda mini trail, suspended about 4 ft off the floor via 4 3/8 chains and a mat on the floor under it.. Wild ride!


Can I come sweep the floors when you get the shop going ?
sounds like you have the right stuff to pull something like this off.
Cheers.

While that is cool as hell and I'm all for it. The shops back then didnt have the litigation fears that you do now. Still I say go for it.

[Ricardo Kuhn]

I amazing how sometimes I ONLY want to see one side of the picture,I do know the other SIDE exist i just Refuse to see it,sometimes just going for it is the only way,like in downhill racing you DO KNOW is going to be difficult but you jump on it anyway, if was that way you will never start,sometimes is time to get on it,and GO FOR IT.
I know of at least 3 very proficiend shops that actually do very well,that start out of nothing,out of little single man(and a Woman,my ex girlfriend) yeah the permits are a TON,they go to small claim court 2/3 a year,but they more or less do good.
My shop I will like it to be more a R&D facility kind of a close door or at least not SUPER HIGH profile,so stuff can get develope(I know the Ambulance chassers are out there)that for me is the next step,i can not keep developing my IDEAS with out a place to do it,my room is not big enoff ,and DREMMELS are not consider Heavy machinery,but if I want to do more stuff i need to find a place that i can multi task ,have equipment,do stuff.
I think you are RIght LARRY in ussing the model i use at the moment,Really LOW OVERHEAD,Cheap rent,and a ton of PASSION.

thanks for the advice,for sure you know this place much better(America),were i come From we do have ambulances but not that many people running maratones after them(that is the reason I can not produce my bycicle rack..fear of the legal ramifications. )thanks again
actually nobody respond to my Question:

after all thaT cRAP OF PERMITS AND BUTT kissing of public workers if i get to open it,WILL YOU COME???????

PS:of course we will not try to fix the unfixable but this days they tell you that you need to TOTAL you BIKE because the brake rotors are TRASH,and to me that is a little to much

[Chopperman]

Hey Rico, if you have the passion, go for it. Do it. The only caution I am tossing out there is to focus on the nightmare issues as well as the dream. The dream is what keeps you going. The nightmares are what make you prepare. The dudes that climb everest *dream* of raching the summit. and that is what gets them there. But they take all the gear in case it all goes wrong. To my mind, I think there is a niche for businesses that do just service, rebuild and repair. I know of a couple guys here that do the same with cars. Dealers arent motivated to fix a broken bike.

[Randy]

Ricardo,

can't really comment on the business aspects of this idea. I know that modern shops have evolved to increase profit potential and the old style shops have all but disappeared. My old Ducati shop was an old style shop. Just a kind of grimy place that had beer in an old coke machine in the back. You could go by and shoot the shit and john would offer you a beer and you could actually hang out in the shop and talk to the mechanic that was working on your bike and not just a service writer. I trusted them because i was on a first name basis with the guy actually doing the work on my bike. he would answer questions make recomendations and actually talk to you. great old place for a true gear head.
now most modern dealers are more of what i call boutiques. all shiny and polished, the shop and mechanics completely inaccessable to the customer. everthing is relayed second hand through some guy at the service desk that doesn't know shit about bikes, more times than not. you never even get to talk to the guy actually tending your precious machine. I, as an enthusiast, really prefer the old style places but unfortunately a lot of bike owners these days are more of a professional type and expect and want polished boutique shops. they don't want to see the grease and grime and couldn't care less about hanging around the shop and talking bikes all afternoon. They just want their bike to be like their Lexus, just ride it and forget.
But I do believe there is still and always will be the true enthusiast that appreciates the type of place you invision. You will never get rich owning that type of place but it seems your not the type that really worries about that too much. If you can make a decent living doing what you really love then it might be worth a shot.

Like i said i'm not a business expert at all, knowing nothing of all the regulations and expenses in your area. But, you would probably me best off doing what GSlarry suggested, start out small with as little overhead as possible, something like a studio is a good idea (someplace that can double as a shop and home) then you could keep your present job and take bike work on the side. then as your reputation grows you can see where it takes you without having to risk it all on a make it or die plan.

life is too short to do anything other than that about which you are most passionate.

good luck,
randy