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Old 11-21-2005, 12:40 PM   #31
bmwktmbill
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Just got off the telephone with Scott. The stabalizer I have is the off road model. Thanks to Creeper, Loaded and others for their comments which helped clarify this for me. I have edited my previous comments to reflect my experience with the off road Scotts Steering Stabilizer.
Bill in Tomahawk, WI
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Old 11-21-2005, 01:18 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill
Just got off the telephone with Scott. The stabalizer I have is the off road model. Thanks to Creeper, Loaded and others for their comments which helped clarify this for me. I have edited my previous comments to reflect my experience with the off road Scotts Steering Stabilizer.
Bill in Tomahawk, WI
Good to know Bill. Your original comments and impression that you had a street damper was one of the reasons I was still up in the air about which unit would be better for my needs.
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Additional information.

I just got off the phone with Paige Emig. I called her about ordering one of their very sano bolt-on stabilizer pins.
I was told that she needed more information especially since they had no reference data for the stabilizer mount in question... the "Stenhouse Super Deluxe" unit.
They have several different lengths available to accomodate the assorted above and below (SUB) stabilizer mounts; the length of pin and the flats cut into that fit into the stabilizer lever arm are semi-critical.

I contacted Colin for any measurements he may have obtained... and we are in the process of getting that information sorted out.
When we do, I'll contact Page again, get the specs on the stabilizer pin and post the information.

As a side note... Paige Emig was very nice and accomodating on the phone. So far, my experiences with both Scott's and Emig have been nothing but favorable.

C
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creeper screwed with this post 11-21-2005 at 11:25 PM
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Old 11-22-2005, 04:41 PM   #33
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All the pieces are falling into place...

Afternoon everybody!

After collecting and sharing information between Colin, me and the absolutely fabulous Paige Emig, we have the bits and pieces of, what will probably become the most popular variation of the kit for the KTM LC4, sorted out.

Order your stabilizer mount from Stenhouse Racing.

Order your stabilizer from Scott's. Colin recommends a 40mm stepped arm, installed reversed for a SUB mount... this information is included in the instructions that come with his mount. You can request this from Scott's at the time of order.

If you want a bolt-on stabilizer post, order your post from Emig Racing. Before you order, please go to the Emig site, click on 'View Online Catalog', then scroll down to 'KTM LC4 Install' and read that.
If you have a top front mounted ignition switch and fork lock, there is some minor frame cutting with a hacksaw or cut-off disc required to install the post collar. If you can't do this, consider other options such as a weld-on post.
You may also need to remove a small amount of material from the back of the top triple tree to clear the Emig post.

Update 1-7-06
Based on a thread on KTMtalk, it's been determined that the '04 625 SMC has a different top tree with quite a bit more pinch bolt spacing behind the steering stem. Due to this, a much larger amount of material must be removed from the top tree when using the Emig bolt-on stabilizer post.
The alternatives are a 50mm Scott's stabilizer arm and a matching Scott's bolt-on or weld-on post, as Emig does not make a post with more offset. Contact Scott's for further information.


If it's all good, contact Paige Emig and tell her you want part number SPO-640-160 (as in a post height of 1.60 inches), this will get you the combination of parts needed to mate in the correct location with the Scott's arm.
We've calculated the length of 1.60" as a good compromise to accommodate the variations we will have due to the differences in condition and torque value on the riser rubber mounts.
If your rubber mounts are old or worn and allow easy movement, they should be replaced before you install the damper kit.

I'd like to point out that Paige Emig not only has a lovely and accommodating phone persona, she is very professional and never gave the impression that she was annoyed with me discussing the use of the Stenhouse mount or a Scott's damper.
In all fairness, remember that aside from individual parts, Emig Racing sells a top quality stabilizer kit with slick risers, custom anodizing and their own proprietary damper assembly.

C

Quick addendum: Although there is the likelihood that the stabilizer post from Emig could be incorrect... it's doubtful. I do not have any parts in my hand at this time so I cannot verify that the fit is right. I will post an install guide as soon as I get all the parts and report if there are any inconsistencies.
I mention this for the paranoid types that may want to hold off on ordering the post until I or Colin or whoever can verify fitment and function.
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creeper screwed with this post 01-08-2006 at 10:23 AM
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Old 11-23-2005, 12:43 AM   #34
bmwktmbill
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Made a few phone calls about the Scotts steering stabalizer today to make sure I had it straight. Everyone I spoke to at cycle shops with experience setting up bikes to race in the desert recommend the Scotts off road model for the KTM. Malcom Smith uses a Scotts off road model on his Baja bike.
I ended up talking to Sportsmans Cycle, a KTM dealer in Nevada. They confirmed what I thought I already knew which was that stablizers by different manufactures work differently. Scotts off road dampens in one direction, away from center, the on road model dampens in both directions, as does the GPR unit and also Emig's if I remember correctly. I asked why? This was the explaination I was given.
Scotts theory is different than GPR's. Scotts makes the stabalizer work best for hitting something like a rock in a straight line. The wheel is damped away from center, allowed to return to center easily but can not cross center without being damped again. This forces the bike back to center and a straight track. The GPR is designed to offer maximum help if the wheel hits a rock with the wheel already turned, since it is damped in both directions it helps the bike continue the turn. This is my understanding. It may be wrong. Think for yourself.
So you take you pick where you want the most help. Both designs really work very well and help in all situations. No one I talked to wants to ride a machine without a steering stabilizer, they consider it essential. One design is not "better" than another. They all wear out if they are not serviced and can be broken in a wreck.
No one argued with me when I said it felt like the steering was touched by the hands of the gods when a stabilizer is installed.
For fully loaded travel adventure riding on some sort of a dirt road I believe the Scotts stabalizer might have the edge for me because most of my problems come with the bars nearly straight and not in turns. Others who ride or think differently can make their own call.
Bill in Tomahawk.

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Old 11-25-2005, 11:11 PM   #35
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Some more riding today with my scotts dirt damper on the 300. I gotta admit, it works very well. Hit quite a lot of sand today and at first the front was really crazy snaking around. I was surprised that it only took one more click on the damping to bring that under control.
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Old 11-27-2005, 08:47 PM   #36
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That's been my experience too. A couple of clicks and stability. Tough to watch your friends crashing around without the stabilizer and you just want to go faster. Easy to adjust on the move.

Bill in Tohawk
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Old 11-27-2005, 10:17 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill
That's been my experience too. A couple of clicks and stability. Tough to watch your friends crashing around without the stabilizer and you just want to go faster. Easy to adjust on the move.

Bill in Tohawk
you have obviously never been riding with creeper. i love to watch him and cache crash into each other. kinda gratifying actually. ... especially when configurationspace rams in from behind to seal the deal.
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Old 12-03-2005, 05:17 PM   #38
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Today I added one more click to the scotts dirt damper to see the diff. Yeah, less is more. Even on the light bike and 1way, too much damping in sand will start tipping the bike left and right as you try to stay straight. It's kinda funny on the scotts that there is only one click each between too little, just right, and too much. They're pretty wide clicks though. Maybe you can do a half click. Not sure.
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Old 12-03-2005, 06:02 PM   #39
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I've got a street Scotts on my KLX400 simply because I got it on e-bay for $170. Seems to work pretty well, but I do find myself adjusting lighter in the dirt and stiffer on the road.
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Old 12-11-2005, 06:27 PM   #40
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All the bits and pieces are installed and torqued down.



Everything fits together as it should... and quite stylish too.



The only issues, and minor ones at that, are:
The Emig stabilizer pin flats needed to be filed down just a bit to fit the Scott's damper arm.
The arm to "end of flats" relationship is a bit close. I may remove an 1/8" of the bottom of the pin to allow a bit more room for rubber riser mount movement.



The final cable routing will have to wait until I get the tank back on, as that will have an effect on the routing.

For those that intend to order the Emig post kit, if you already have your Scott's damper, you may want to measure the width of the slot and provide that information to Emig at the time of order.
As you can see in the photo, the pin is actually longer than it needs to be, but as the stack of tolerances can vary a bit from bike to bike, you may wish to wait and see how yours fits and cut a bit off if necessary.

That's it... happy damping.
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Old 12-11-2005, 06:43 PM   #41
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Beautifull !!
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Old 12-11-2005, 07:01 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by boejangles
Beautifull !!
Would have had this all bolted up solid and posted sooner, but I only picked up the suspension yesterday. Wanted everything in place and torqued to make sure the stack of tolerances was correct.

You gona' do a damper on the HP James?

C
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Old 12-11-2005, 07:22 PM   #43
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Very nice Uncle Creep. Now I have "damper envy".

One caveat though.... isn't the upside down "Scotts" gonna drive your retentive side a bit nuts?
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Old 12-11-2005, 07:32 PM   #44
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You gona' do a damper on the HP James?
C
I need to spend more high speed trail time on this thing so I can determine why I haven't seen these on the race bikes yet.
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Old 12-11-2005, 07:34 PM   #45
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Very nice Uncle Creep.
It's uncle now ey?
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