Avoiding Face Plants

Rogue Scout · 12-12-2005, 06:11 PM

I went to RawHyde's riding course a total noob on my 92 GS and left with skills and stronger sense of confidence off road. Good investment of time and money, and no, I'm not in any position to gain from that endorsement. That's not my point.

I also took the MSF Basic Rider course and came away with the same sense. Those skills, on and off road, continue to save my butt (and ego, face plants hurt the ego!).

I'd like to read posts from personal experience about other worthwhile courses that keep face plants down to a minimum, repair bills at bay, and also (most importantly) keep us alive instead of a number in the statistic column.......

Gringo · 12-12-2005, 06:44 PM

a year and a half ago I took the MSF experienced rider course. I still remember exact details of some things I learned - in one video they showed a number of situations and asked you how you would react, and in one there was a guy on a fast country road following another car at the prescribed 2 seconds back, with a second tailgating; no place to pull off to wave him by, no place to pass the leading car - boxed in. They paused the film and asked the class what you ought to do in such a situation, but nobody had the right anser. The answer was to maintain your speed but just drop back to 4 seconds following distance from the car in front, so you could react more gradually to anything that may come up, so the asshat behind would not have to react so quickly to your reactions. I never would have thought of that option - but it makes perfect sense. May sound simplistic, but at that moment (about 10:30 am of an 8-hour day) I felt I'd just gotten my $95 worth. Of course there were a bunch of other things I learned that day as well - like how badly I sucked at braking. My airhead GS doesn't have the best of brakes so I needed all the work on my technique that I could get. Most of the folks in the course had been riding on their learners permits for years but had just made the recommended 3,000 miles and were testing for their licenses - they were a pretty sorry bunch, kept going wide on the curves and dropping their bikes; but one young guy on a spanking new V-rod outbraked me and that really pissed me off. By the end of the day I'd cut my braking distance by about 40% - and THAT is probably REALLY worth my $95. I'm gonna take the course again next spring, 2 years later, and will probably continue to repeat it ever 2-3 years. I drove home that night and I just knew I was a much safer rider than I'd been when I rode up there. Cheapest life insurance you can buy.

Ostrich · 12-13-2005, 09:17 AM

excuse my ignorance, but what is the raw hyde institute? I'm too lazy to google it right now.

larryboy · 12-13-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ostrich

excuse my ignorance, but what is the raw hyde institute? I'm too lazy to google it right now.

you must be new here. :wink

http://www.rawhyde-offroad.com/

Rogue Scout · 12-13-2005, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ostrich

excuse my ignorance, but what is the raw hyde institute? I'm too lazy to google it right now.

RawHyde camp is where noobs are sent for a serious butt-spanking - you walk away unable to sit for a spell. The most frequent qualifying offense is asking questions that Google will answer for you in a heartbeat.......

Check out the link in the post above. I went from rookie status to "okay maybe I can ride off road now" status in 3 days. Good people, good training, particulary if you don't have alot of experience off road.

Rogue Scout · 12-13-2005, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gringo

a year and a half ago I took the MSF experienced rider course. I still remember exact details of some things I learned. I drove home that night and I just knew I was a much safer rider than I'd been when I rode up there. Cheapest life insurance you can buy.

Heard almost the same exact endorsement last night talking with a buddy and decided that would be my next course.....your comments are icing on the cake. MSF should send you an endorsement fee.

Disquisitive Dave · 12-13-2005, 08:21 PM

Neduro offered up a dirt riding clinic for us Front Rangers that redefined for me what is possible on a motorcycle. Report here. Said he'd repeat it if there was enough interest.

The MSF BRC was an excellent place to start. It got me over some braking and cornering fear. ERC is on my todo list, once I think I meet their prereqs.

On to speculation...

Jimmy Lewis is supposed to put on a good class. At least this report opened my eyes to some techniques that I have found to be very beneficial.

I've heard a number of good comments about American Supercamp. Apparently it's THE place to learn how to handle things when traction abandons you. Turns out they're having a session in January just up the road, so I've signed up. We'll see what I get out of it...

kdxkawboy · 12-14-2005, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Scout

I'd like to read posts from personal experience about other worthwhile courses that keep face plants down to a minimum, repair bills at bay, and also (most importantly) keep us alive instead of a number in the statistic column.......

For me, the best course I took to keep me alive on a bike were the ones I took on the way to getting my Professional Ski Instructor of Amercia certification.

In those days I was a ski bum. The instructing paid for my ski racing and enabled my race training. It put me in an environment where I was constantly working on my understanding of how skiing worked. In learning how to teach others you learned a lot about teaching yourself. Being competitive for me wasn't so much going out to beat the other guy as it was going out to beat yourself and knowing the rest would take care of itself. So I got into the habit of constantly being aware of how I was skiing and feeding that back into what I need to work on to get better.

I've carried that over to motorcycling. Every time I ride I practice. I work on some skill, and find something that needs more practice and work on it. I get the books like Twist of the Wrist and Gary Seminic's Off Road Techniques and I read and re-read them until I have completely internalized their wisdom. I go to the races and watch the racers to understand what it is they are doing. When I have trouble putting it together I have my circle of mentors that will take the time to help me work through my ignorance. I read the street stratedgies and run mental practice skills. I don't do this 100% of my ride, but some part of every ride gets used for practice time.

But that is how ski instructing has helped me stay alive, it taught me to approach every day like a pro.

Artboy57 · 12-15-2005, 12:56 PM

I just Emailed the Rawhyde folks to see what their spring schedule is. Sounds like a weekend well spent.There are 2 others I noticed, admototours.com and motoschool.com -I have a friend that enjoyed the motoschool class. The Rawhyde is the only one I've heard of that specializes in the big GS type bike wrangling that I'm interested in.

Rogue Scout · 12-15-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artboy57

I just Emailed the Rawhyde folks to see what their spring schedule is. Sounds like a weekend well spent.There are 2 others I noticed, admototours.com and motoschool.com -I have a friend that enjoyed the motoschool class. The Rawhyde is the only one I've heard of that specializes in the big GS type bike wrangling that I'm interested in.

One of the best weekends I've spent on the bike. As an added bonus, the meals are prepared by a chef from a culinary institute. Really a great time.

murgatroid42 · 12-18-2005, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Scout

I'd like to read posts from personal experience about other worthwhile courses that keep face plants down to a minimum, repair bills at bay, and also (most importantly) keep us alive instead of a number in the statistic column.......

Every course I have taken has helped me avoid face plants. I took the MSF beginner course a long time ago, the MSF dirt riding course 2 yrs ago, and

neduro's dirt course in CO in Nov. Avoiding even one good face plant, and skipping a trip to the ER, is worth several times more than the cost of the courses.

12-12-2005, 06:11 PM	#1
Rogue Scout ^OP Instigator Deluxe Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Its a dry swamp. Oddometer: 1,316	Avoiding Face Plants I went to RawHyde's riding course a total noob on my 92 GS and left with skills and stronger sense of confidence off road. Good investment of time and money, and no, I'm not in any position to gain from that endorsement. That's not my point. I also took the MSF Basic Rider course and came away with the same sense. Those skills, on and off road, continue to save my butt (and ego, face plants hurt the ego!). I'd like to read posts from personal experience about other worthwhile courses that keep face plants down to a minimum, repair bills at bay, and also (most importantly) keep us alive instead of a number in the statistic column....... __________________ Life must be understood backwards; but... it must be lived forward. Kierkegaard

12-12-2005, 06:44 PM	#2
Gringo simple by nature Joined: Jun 2003 Location: a small drinking village with a fishing problem Oddometer: 1,348	a year and a half ago I took the MSF experienced rider course. I still remember exact details of some things I learned - in one video they showed a number of situations and asked you how you would react, and in one there was a guy on a fast country road following another car at the prescribed 2 seconds back, with a second tailgating; no place to pull off to wave him by, no place to pass the leading car - boxed in. They paused the film and asked the class what you ought to do in such a situation, but nobody had the right anser. The answer was to maintain your speed but just drop back to 4 seconds following distance from the car in front, so you could react more gradually to anything that may come up, so the asshat behind would not have to react so quickly to your reactions. I never would have thought of that option - but it makes perfect sense. May sound simplistic, but at that moment (about 10:30 am of an 8-hour day) I felt I'd just gotten my $95 worth. Of course there were a bunch of other things I learned that day as well - like how badly I sucked at braking. My airhead GS doesn't have the best of brakes so I needed all the work on my technique that I could get. Most of the folks in the course had been riding on their learners permits for years but had just made the recommended 3,000 miles and were testing for their licenses - they were a pretty sorry bunch, kept going wide on the curves and dropping their bikes; but one young guy on a spanking new V-rod outbraked me and that really pissed me off. By the end of the day I'd cut my braking distance by about 40% - and THAT is probably REALLY worth my $95. I'm gonna take the course again next spring, 2 years later, and will probably continue to repeat it ever 2-3 years. I drove home that night and I just knew I was a much safer rider than I'd been when I rode up there. Cheapest life insurance you can buy. __________________ - Gringo ____________________________________________ "I mean seriously, what is funnier than Helen Keller" - Mutineer "Ah, yes, Greasing the nipples is really the cure all for a whole host of ailments." - Stagehand

12-13-2005, 09:17 AM	#3
Ostrich Jaded and Happy Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Fresneck or Bust Baby! Oddometer: 8,731	excuse my ignorance, but what is the raw hyde institute? I'm too lazy to google it right now. __________________ If you use Geico watch out. The buyout for my car was way below any objective figure (KBB, NADA, etc.). Also, I could not get in touch with anyone on the first try during a claim resolution. Just because it's a zoo out there doesn't mean you have to view it from a cage! Don't be an impulse buyer... afterall you have time..

12-13-2005, 08:21 PM	#7
Disquisitive Dave Not so wise fool Joined: Sep 2005 Location: Denver, Colorado Oddometer: 449	Neduro offered up a dirt riding clinic for us Front Rangers that redefined for me what is possible on a motorcycle. Report here. Said he'd repeat it if there was enough interest. The MSF BRC was an excellent place to start. It got me over some braking and cornering fear. ERC is on my todo list, once I think I meet their prereqs. On to speculation... Jimmy Lewis is supposed to put on a good class. At least this report opened my eyes to some techniques that I have found to be very beneficial. I've heard a number of good comments about American Supercamp. Apparently it's THE place to learn how to handle things when traction abandons you. Turns out they're having a session in January just up the road, so I've signed up. We'll see what I get out of it... Disquisitive Dave screwed with this post 12-13-2005 at 08:26 PM Reason: Forgot Jimmy...

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12-15-2005, 12:56 PM	#9
Artboy57 Slave to THE MOUSE Joined: Nov 2005 Location: BEE-yoo-tee-ful Eagle Rock, CA Oddometer: 683	I just Emailed the Rawhyde folks to see what their spring schedule is. Sounds like a weekend well spent.There are 2 others I noticed, admototours.com and motoschool.com -I have a friend that enjoyed the motoschool class. The Rawhyde is the only one I've heard of that specializes in the big GS type bike wrangling that I'm interested in.